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  • HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

    I have a TOYOTA Prado Grande 2004. I am trying to decide between a Battery Pack or a Dual battery system. I have read that AGM batteries are good and looks like it will suite my need to use a Fridge Freezer (either a ENGEL 80lt 0.5 - 4.2 Amps variable or Evakool 85lt average of 2.3 Amp/Hr @ 43*C ambient temp with Freezer temp -19*C) camping in a non powered site for 3 + days.

    I am very new at all the accessories stuff ops: ops: ops: and would appreciate your openions.

    I contacted a TJM dealer and they told me that to install (complete) a dual battery system it will set me back around $ 950.00 ... not sure if the battery they supply is an AGM. I am thinking of getting at least 120amp AGM - certainly not sure if it will fit in my Prado under the bonnet.

    The other option is getting a battery pack 75amp THUMPER from EVAKOOL (I am told they are AGM as well and can be plugged in to a normal 12v 120w cig lighter socket) for $850.00.

    Not sure what to choose :?: :?: :?: . Your comments and advise are very welcomed.

    T Naga

  • #2
    nagalim,

    The main electrical advantage of AGM batteries over wet cell batteries is their ability to accept very high recharge currents. ie you can recharge them quickly. They are sealed (no-spill) so can be used in the vehicle cabin. I would think that since the thumper is designed to be carried in the back of the vehicle it will definately be an AGM. Though, if the thumper is desinged to run of the 120W (10amp max.) outlet then this is the maximum recharge current that it will take, which is low compared with a recharge current of 30+ amps for a 120AH AGM.

    AGM batteries do not like heat, and in hot environments the performance of an AGM battery will suffer more than the performance of a wet cell. For this reason some maunfacturers don't recommed the use of AGM batteries under the bonnet. Though there are others that do advertise the use of their AGM batteries for under bonnet applications.

    A good quality 120AH AGM battery alone will cost around $500 so I doubt that the TJM offer is for an AGM.

    The best setup (will give the highest Amp Hours, with the fastest recharge time) is a dual battery with an AGM located in the back of the Prado. This is also the most expensive.

    The two criteria that drive what system you need are:
    How long will you need to run the fridge without recharging the battery.
    How fast do you need to battery to recharge.

    Leachy
    EX-Prado Owner

    Comment


    • #3


      i use a flyer2 battery box. It comes with a cable and 50amp breaker that you run up to the cars battery. (i have a 130Ah battery in there)

      Its a full dual battery setup with an isolater. The cable from the battery has an anderson plug on it, as does my engels lead. So, i can use the fridge straight off the main battery, or put in the box and run it off that, while it gets charged while the engine is running.

      the fridge has run at 2 degrees for 2 days (in a hot car) without charging and the battery box was still putting out 12 volts under load. I reckon i would have gotten another 2 days out of it.
      2004 GXL V6 5 speed auto. Cooper STTs, 40mm Lift, Scanguage II, Flyer batterybox, GME3400 UHF, Engel 40L, Safari Snorkel, IPF Xeon Headlight upgrade, Milford Cargo Barrier.
      [img]http://users.on.net/matthewv/4wd/prado.jpg[/img]

      Comment


      • #4
        Also a qaulity AGM is very heavy, I attempted to put my AGM in but it was too big and it's only 90AH (too tall). I opted to put in a wet cell 115AH Trojan battery up the front and have put my AGM in a supercheap battery box for $50. On extended bush trips I'll put the box in the back and connect the battery in with an anderson plug.

        Just be carefull with the weight of AGM's especially with the guard issues. Mine weighed in at around 40kg and dropped the car about half an inch :shock: then when I tried to lift it back out I couldn't!! Note to self: Make sure battery has handles next time.
        2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
        Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

        [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
        [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Matt
          i use a flyer2 battery box. It comes with a cable and 50amp breaker that you run up to the cars battery. (i have a 130Ah battery in there)

          Its a full dual battery setup with an isolater. The cable from the battery has an anderson plug on it, as does my engels lead. So, i can use the fridge straight off the main battery, or put in the box and run it off that, while it gets charged while the engine is running.

          the fridge has run at 2 degrees for 2 days (in a hot car) without charging and the battery box was still putting out 12 volts under load. I reckon i would have gotten another 2 days out of it.
          Hi Matt,
          I'm interested in how you have your Flyer2 hooked up to the main battery. Do you have any photos to share. I bought a Thumper battery pack and not sure about connecting it to the terminals of the main battery. I was thinking about a special terminal that not only takes the existing cables but has a wing nut fitting to connect the lead from the Thumper. Do you have any advice to give on this?
          Thanks
          ------------------------------------------------------------------
          2007 Prado GXL, D4D auto, silver, Sovereign bullbar, Tmax Winch, Towbar, GME 3440 UHF Radio, Engel fridge, Thumper Battery, Rhino Roof Rack,Cargo Barrier, storage drawers (under construction)
          Wish list: Snorkel

          Comment


          • #6
            Like Matt I have a Flyer (the original one in black) and have a 120Ah AGM in it.

            I run it off the rear 12V and the fridge off it.

            When camping the fridge and Flyer go into the tent so that the fridge is not being hauled around everywhere.

            Great for barbies at the creek or at home out the back etc

            Much cheaper than a dual battery kit and more flexible.
            July 2008 D4D Auto GXL in White - rubbered, lifted, snorkeled, lit, bagged, barriered, barred, radio'd, and racked

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by phoenix
              Like Matt I have a Flyer (the original one in black) and have a 120Ah AGM in it.

              I run it off the rear 12V and the fridge off it.

              When camping the fridge and Flyer go into the tent so that the fridge is not being hauled around everywhere.

              Great for barbies at the creek or at home out the back etc

              Much cheaper than a dual battery kit and more flexible.
              This is sounding very good!

              I've been looking at the Flyer 2 and have swapped a few emails with Derek at Sidewinder. I am a little worried about a dual battery under the hood after stories about front wheel arches cracking.

              My question is - how do you find it charging from the rear 12V ciggie lighter output? In theory it only puts out 120W = 10A, so it's nowhere near as much as hardwiring it the starter battery.

              How would you comment of the Flyer 2 overall? Build quality etc? I know its voltage meter is just a simple LED bar with not much resolution.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                Bump.
                Originally posted by Deeptank
                My question is - how do you find it charging from the rear 12V ciggie lighter output? In theory it only puts out 120W = 10A, so it's nowhere near as much as hardwiring it the starter battery.

                How would you comment of the Flyer 2 overall? Build quality etc? I know its voltage meter is just a simple LED bar with not much resolution.
                I've been looking at the new Flyer 2. Anyone with one of these that can specifically answer the above questions from Deeptank?
                [B][SIZE=4]ntp
                [/SIZE][/B][COLOR=#000040][B][SIZE=1]Love the Outback............. Love my Prado.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
                [I][SIZE=1][URL="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w328/ntpryce/Picture23.png"]My Prado[/URL][/SIZE][/I], [I][SIZE=1][URL="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w328/ntpryce/MyExtras.png"]My Extras[/URL][/SIZE][/I]
                [B]4wdriving First Party[/B][COLOR=#0000ff] - [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#0000ff]dןǝɥ ɹoɟ ןןɐɔ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı[/COLOR][/B]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                  Bump.
                  [B][SIZE=4]ntp
                  [/SIZE][/B][COLOR=#000040][B][SIZE=1]Love the Outback............. Love my Prado.[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
                  [I][SIZE=1][URL="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w328/ntpryce/Picture23.png"]My Prado[/URL][/SIZE][/I], [I][SIZE=1][URL="http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w328/ntpryce/MyExtras.png"]My Extras[/URL][/SIZE][/I]
                  [B]4wdriving First Party[/B][COLOR=#0000ff] - [/COLOR][B][COLOR=#0000ff]dןǝɥ ɹoɟ ןןɐɔ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı[/COLOR][/B]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                    Originally posted by ntpryce
                    Bump.
                    Spend the extra coin and do it properly!

                    D4D plus ciggie outlet to charge = forget it... If you've got a spare few days to get the battery charged well yeah it may be ok. I had trouble keeping my battery charged with a full days driving using a redarc straight off the main battery.

                    Think about what you want out of your system and how you'll use it. Once you determine that you can get a setup to suit.

                    Crammy
                    2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
                    Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

                    [b]{[/b]ATS Ridepro/Bilstein Lift[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dual Batteries with RanOx Battery Booster[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]600w Projecta 240v Inverter[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Dunlop AT3's / MT MTZ's on Speedy Grande Rims[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Deluxe Winch Bar[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]IPF900XS Spotties - Converted to 50w 4300k HID[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]35w H4-3 4300k HID Hi-Lo Conversion[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]ARB Underbonnet Compressor[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]GME TX3440[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]T-Max 10,000lb winch[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Safari Snorkel[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Milford Cargo Barrier[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]Rhino HD Roofies & AT1410 Roof Tray[b]}[/b] [b]{[/b]60L Waeco[b]}[/b]
                    [img]http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Transportation/Cars/4_wheel_drive.gif[/img]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                      Hi NT

                      I currently use a 1900amp jump start pack (purple one sold a super cheap, about 48ah) this runs the 40ltr engel for two days (48 hrs) no problems.
                      LC 120 03 GX V6, Bonnet/Head light Protectors, Home Made Draws.Toyota Tow Bar.Cooper ATR 235/70/R17 RE+. Toyota Bullbar with fog light. Navra 150 Spot Lights.
                      [url="http://tikarn669.googlepages.com/home"]http://tikarn669.googlepages.com/home[/url]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                        the flyer comes complete with a massive cable that i have run thru the cabling channel down the passenger side (along the door jams).. it also comes with a 50a circuit breaker for added convenience..

                        all i had to do was solder the anderson plug on after installing, and away i went.

                        its in the prado 24/7 now, and i highly recommend it. The only issue i have is that it ticks like crazy when the voltage hovers around 13.3v.. there is a switch on the unit (after you take off the lid) to adjust the voltage in which it starts/stops drawing from your crank battery.. but the noise isnt annoying enough for me to do somethign about it.

                        build quality is great.. the led meter does work.. but i just have a multimeter in the back.. and after so long using it, i know what conditions will produce what battery life.. in shade, on mild days of about 30.. and down to 20 at night.. it will keep the engel at 2 degrees for 3 days.
                        2004 GXL V6 5 speed auto. Cooper STTs, 40mm Lift, Scanguage II, Flyer batterybox, GME3400 UHF, Engel 40L, Safari Snorkel, IPF Xeon Headlight upgrade, Milford Cargo Barrier.
                        [img]http://users.on.net/matthewv/4wd/prado.jpg[/img]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                          An issue with using the standard rear accessories outlet is that the lightweight wiring they are connected to gives you a fair amount of voltage drop using it apparently and if you pull a lot of power through it (i.e. more than 4-5AMPs) it'll get a bit warm and you may even melt your plug or wiring if you're unlucky.

                          We had a dual battery installed by TJM - they favour something like an N70 class 'hybrid' battery for under the bonnet i.e. a battery with a CCA rating of say 760 and a nominal rating for power like 105 AmpHours. e.g. an "Allrounder" brand. It's a wet cell semi deep-cycle battery.

                          They'll also put in a 6mm (at least) wired connection to a separate rear socket connected to the auxiliary battery and available 24x7 for appx $100.

                          We went with the Pirahna DBE180s which has a solar stage input because I think down the track we'll get a panel (Pirahna unit can only perform as a regulator in its own right for a smaller solar panel though - can't remember exactly how big but don't think more than 50watts). That way we can get a top up during the day and extend the use on the battery and hopefully stop it from getting drawn down too far. Ideally we'd have a 120 watt panel and appropriate solar regulator but that's an extra 1500 large or so.

                          We also got a portable battery pack (on special at supercheap) which contains an AGM battery which we got for camp lights and also for using as a backup power source for the boat - that way the auxiliary can just power the radio and the fridge.
                          '08 Prado Grande D4D Auto - [color=#800000]Flinders Red[/color], Piranha Dual Battery, GME 3440

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: HELP - AGM Dual Battery or Bttery pack

                            I have had both - started off with the Thumper 75ah, but in the end got a ARB dual batt system put in,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Red Centa Dual Battery

                              I've finally bit the bullet guys and installed a dual battery system

                              For the last 3 years ive been running my Waeco 60L fridge off the Waeco Raps 36ah portable battery...

                              But this week I had a Red Centa Dual Battery system installed through TJM Orange with a 105ah Supercharge Amp Tech deep cycle battery...$753 fully installed

                              I am no technical expert so I am just going to see how it all goes and get back to you. The Red Centa dual battery system is through TJM and is just sit and forget. Basic model, no manual override, no battery monitor or anything....it simply isolates the auxillary battery until the starting battery is full then charges the auxillary.

                              But honestly, my little 36ah Waeco portable pack has given me 3 days of fridge use on average - so this 105ah auxillary battery is gonna give me almost a week I reckon :P :P :P

                              and I won't be throwing away my handy little Waeco battery. She'll also be running the camp shower, or lighting around the campsite. Lovin it :P

                              Can't wait to go bush and test it out :P
                              Greg Simpson "Simmo"
                              Simmo's Offroad Tours
                              Winery Tours - Scenic 4WD Tours - Camping Adventures
                              Orange NSW
                              [url="http://www.simmosoffroadtours.com"]www.simmosoffroadtours.com[/url]

                              2006 Toyota Prado TD GXL, Dune in colour.
                              Sovereign Bullbar, Hella lights, cargo barrier, Opposite Lock Rackmaster racks, Waeco 60L Fridge, Cooper STT's, Sandrabba Matts, GME TX3400,

                              Comment

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