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  • charging rate

    My 2008 D4D is only putting out 13.3 v at the alternator which is hardly enough to charge the caravan battery or keep the fridge cold. Toyota's advise is that spec is 13.2 to 14.8 volt. so mine is within spec. my 2005 used to put out 13.9. have Toyota had a problem as apparantly they dropped the voltage in 08. has anybody fitted a diode to the alternator to lift it a little?

  • #2
    Re: charging rate

    Originally posted by bribiejohn
    My 2008 D4D is only putting out 13.3 v at the alternator which is hardly enough to charge the caravan battery or keep the fridge cold. Toyota's advise is that spec is 13.2 to 14.8 volt. so mine is within spec. my 2005 used to put out 13.9. have Toyota had a problem as apparantly they dropped the voltage in 08. has anybody fitted a diode to the alternator to lift it a little?
    This question keeps coming up, have a look at the thread titled Dual Battery set up ? Which one to get ????.

    That thread has a lot of links to other threads that describe solutions to the problem. In summary though there are a couple of DC-DC chargers such as Ranox and Redarc which can charge a second battery properly.

    Cheers OldGreyGuy
    2008-12 D4D 5-Spd Auto Grande, Silver Ash, Full Window Tint, H-R Towbar, Cargo Barrier, Rhino-Racks, Rola Vortex Tray, GME TX3340, ARB Deluxe Winch Bar, IPF900XS Spotlights, BFG 275/65R17

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: charging rate

      Hi,

      To answer your question, yes I have a diode in my car, the voltage is around 14.5V cold alternator
      and drops to about 14.1 V when the engine bay gets hot.

      If you wish to go down this path a plug and play unit is available on EBAY for $35.

      Cheers

      LeighW
      HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: charging rate

        Originally posted by LeighW
        If you wish to go down this path a plug and play unit is available on EBAY for $35.
        Link?
        [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: charging rate

          So what is the benefit of a $500 DC to DC charger over a $35 diode thingy?

          Glad I haven't gotten around to buying the redarc thingy that i was looking at the other week. I am following this thread very closely!

          Will

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: charging rate

            Originally posted by Wil
            So what is the benefit of a $500 DC to DC charger over a $35 diode thingy?

            Glad I haven't gotten around to buying the redarc thingy that i was looking at the other week. I am following this thread very closely!

            Will
            "$35 diode thingy" will increase entire electrical system voltage and possbily void warranty.

            $500 DC to DC charger only effects the aux. battery and associated circuits.

            The choice is yours !

            The DC-DC charger will also provide and charging I-V curve that is closer to most battery manufacturer's recommendations than running directly off the alternator.

            There is a school of thought that mantains that 25Amp DC-DC chargers only provide better charging than an alternator when the battery is >80% charged and that an alternator, even with an output as low as 13.2V, will provide a faster charge rate when the battery <80% . So direct conenction of even low output ECU controlled alternators is a better option than a DC-DC charger.
            Peronally I don't subscibe to this theory as I have found the best way to get maximum performace a life from a battery is to maintain a high state of charge and stick as close as possibe to the manufacturers recommended charging voltages/currents.
            I have used both direct connection and DC-DC chargers with my D4D and can tell you the DC-DC charger provides a much faster recharge rate and achieves a higher state of charge.


            Leachy
            EX-Prado Owner

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: charging rate

              Firstly,

              The diode mod should not void the warranty as the voltage output range of the alternator
              is still within the specifications quoted by Toyota as normal for the Prado. In fact most Prado
              are much closer to the lower end of the range quoted than one would consider normal and is possibly
              a design problem.

              Mister Toyota if he wanted to could void the warranty where any form of electrical changes have been
              made to your vehicle. If it comes to the crunch I doubt the third party supplier is going to stand beside
              you in court and argue your case.

              As for alternator versus DC-DC chargers, most of the literature I have read promotes that
              they will fully charge a 100AH battery in 3 to 4 hours. This equates to around 30AH which I would have
              thought is higher than most battery manufactures would recommend. To maintain this charge rate, high
              charge voltages are required and this can lead to excessive temperature, gassing and buckling of plates in the battery
              and breaking down of the plate coating due to expansion and contraction.

              The common consensus in industry has always been that a low charge rates and low temperatures give much
              greater battery life than rapid charging cycles.

              An alternator can supply the battery with whatever charge it will take up to the alternators available output, it
              could be as high as 50AH until the batteries surface charge rises then the charge rate will quickly fall, ie the battery
              will take what it wants thus the battery self protects. In the case of a DC-DC charger the charger keeps ramping
              up the voltage so forcing the battery to take more charge.

              Alternator output voltages below 13.8V will not effectively charge a normal lead acid car battery, charge voltage should
              be around th 14.0V to 14.4V depending on the ambient temperature. Charge voltage should be reduced as the battery
              temperature increases. To fully charge a normal lead acid battery at 20C, a voltage of about 14.4V is required for the bulk charge,
              and for a Calcium type battery I believe it is around 14.7V

              Which is better? Up to you, I have a rotronics isolator and a diode in the alternator. A normal lead acid battery for the cranking
              battery and a marine battery for the aux. I have found this setup works well for touring and have had no issues.

              The other advantages of the diode is that it will allow the main battery to get a decent charge and prevent Sulfaction and maximise
              the cranking battery life. I find my Prado cranks much better now than it did with the standard charge rate. Other advantage of course
              is price, lot cheaper than a DC-DC charger.

              On the other hand if you do only short trips and need rapid recharging of the aux or if you are using different types
              of batteries for the main and aux and they require different charging methods then a DC-DC charger could be the way
              to go.

              As for battery life, most batteries in 4X4 probably die as a result of the physical pounding they receive rather than charging
              issues. I change my batteries every 4 years of so as a precaution, not worth trying to get the most life
              you can out of a battery if it's going to fail you in the middle of nowhere!

              Cheers

              LeighW
              HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: charging rate

                "$35 diode thingy" will increase entire electrical system voltage and possbily void warranty.

                I think mister Ranox was the first one to raise this issue and since then it has been often been raised by
                the proponents of the Ranox system.

                Lets look at this realistically, putting a plug and play diode into the Prado will raise the output voltage
                by approximately .6V. This moves the actual output voltage of the alternator from the lower end of the
                range specified as normal for a Prado by Toyota to the upper end of the range. No wiring changes are
                required if you use a plug and play unit, and therefore I can't see how this would void the warranty.

                Now from a Ranox perspective, the Ranox unit from memory can supply a charge current of 30A. Allowing
                for loses in the charger I would assume it is drawing around 40A from the charging system under such conditions.

                The Prado in standard form has two auxiliary outlets in the cabin for owners to connect accessories, these are
                each rated at 7.5A, ie Mr Toyota have allowed for a 15A accessories load! Therefore if they wished to be
                pedantic they could argue that any failures within the charging system could have been caused by the Ranox
                unit overloading the alternator and have a valid point. In most cars if you where to turn on all electrical
                items, ie high beams, windscreen wipers, rear window wipers, window demisters, aircon etc you would
                most likely find that the standard alternator is only marginally able to supply such a load if at all.

                The Prado from memory has a 90AH alternator (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm sure Mr Toyota did not design for an
                extra aux load of 40A to be placed on the alternator and one would have to ponder it's long term reliability
                under these conditions.

                The above is just considering a Ranox, if we where to add up the full accessory load, radios, compressors,
                fridges, driving lights the accessory load could be a lot higher than 40A.

                In my non modified Prado on a hot days I observed the charge voltage getting as low as 13.3 volts without any load
                on the alternator, ie lights off etc. This is inadequate to charge the main battery. Putting a Ranox unit in it would have
                certainly caused the voltage to drop even lower and could even result in the main being discharged unless the Ranox
                unit turns its self off under such conditions. If it turns off then its not charging the aux.

                If you want to press the point of warranties further, then fitting raised suspension could void the suspension,
                universal joint and cv warranties as you have change the normal operating angles.

                In fact any mods from standard could void the warranty in the area concerned.

                Cheers

                LeighW
                HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: charging rate

                  Can someone post the diode that needs to be used and how to install it correctly?
                  Manata 3" Exhaust, Blisten shocks, King Springs 50 mm lift, Poly Air Bags, Roof Rack, Iron Man Bull Bar, HID 50W LightForce XGT spotties, Daul Batteries, GME TX3440 & AE4705 ant, Upgraded window washer, Bonnet Scoop, Tunit chip, bonnet protector, headlight protector, Cooper STT's, ScangaugeII, Dash Mat, Endless Air, Stebel Nautilus, Diff Breathers, Water Sedimentor. ([b]Camprite TL8s [/b] Arrived ALIVE~!)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: charging rate

                    "Can someone post the diode that needs to be used and how to install it correctly?"

                    The mod involves replacing the ALT-S fuse with a silicon diode. Any silicon power rectifier
                    diode may be used, the rating of the diode is not important (though different types will have
                    marginally different voltage drops) it is how you mount it that is.

                    If you can mechanically support it then a 1amp diode will do. Or you can simply plug a diode into
                    the fuse contacts in the fuse box though I wouldn't recommend it. If you go this path then I would
                    recommend you use a 6A diode for mechanical strength.

                    The diode needs to be connected with the cathode, (negative marked with a white or black bar) facing
                    away from the battery.

                    If you connect a voltmeter across the diode after install you should see around a .6V
                    drop across the diode if installed correctly. If you see higher than 1V you have the diode the
                    wrong way round.

                    A plug in unit that simply replaces the fuse is available on Ebay.

                    Cheers

                    LeighW
                    HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: charging rate

                      here is the Ebay link to the diode charge booster.

                      http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Prado-Alternator ... 4a9ed6f0f5
                      Cheers, Wayne

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: charging rate

                        Thank you for the information and link.
                        Manata 3" Exhaust, Blisten shocks, King Springs 50 mm lift, Poly Air Bags, Roof Rack, Iron Man Bull Bar, HID 50W LightForce XGT spotties, Daul Batteries, GME TX3440 & AE4705 ant, Upgraded window washer, Bonnet Scoop, Tunit chip, bonnet protector, headlight protector, Cooper STT's, ScangaugeII, Dash Mat, Endless Air, Stebel Nautilus, Diff Breathers, Water Sedimentor. ([b]Camprite TL8s [/b] Arrived ALIVE~!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: charging rate

                          How long have people been using this diode plug in and what have been the results/side affects if any? Am interested in buying but slightly concerned on side affects. Thanks

                          Frank
                          Silver GXL 4.0 V6. Rhino 3 bar HD racks and Rhino Platform rack. Open Sky Side and rear awnings. ORS Rear drawer and fridge slide. Waeco 50 L Fridge. Smart Start Solenoid dual Batt Sys. Century 100 Ah deep Cyc Batt. ARB Twin Lockers. Tigerz 11 120000 Lb winch. 2 inch Lovells Springs and Bilsteins Shocks. Poly Airs in rear. Outback Water Tank. Happy with what i have and where it will go.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: charging rate

                            Originally posted by Toy Pradopetty
                            How long have people been using this diode plug in and what have been the results/side affects if any? Am interested in buying but slightly concerned on side affects. Thanks

                            Frank
                            My local operator of a major national battery retailing chain recommended this mod as the best & cheapest way of overcoming the low charge output of the D4D ECU controlled alternator. I was quoted $35.00 for a 15 minute install, I presume it's similar to the plug-in described here. He reckons he's installed heaps of them on Prados with no issues. He's also an auto electrician so seems to know his stuff. Like Frank though, I'd like some reassurance via feedback from someone who's had this install long term.

                            Sunday
                            [color=#0080FF]Having reached my 40s I finally know what I want to be when I grow up: a Grey Nomad!

                            2006 GXL D4D Auto with Kedron XC (Cross Country) Caravan [/color]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: charging rate

                              I’m not going into the merits of whether the diode implant is good, bad or indifferent but why do you need to install one in the first place.

                              Your battery will only need a short time of driving to replace the energy used during starting and even then the alternator voltage runs at a higher voltage for a give time period before it drops back to the lower operating voltage.

                              If your running a dual battery system and have done some camping and set off for the day’s drive with low batteries, the drive time needed to fully charge both batteries will only be about an hours difference between the lower normal operating voltage and the tricked up voltage, for low batteries.

                              So whats the point?

                              Comment

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