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  • Mav,
    What I was told today probably had a bit of damage control spin about it so "soon" is a matter of perspective.

    They key point for me is that something is happening behind the scenes so there is light at the end of the tunnel - it's just that the tunnel might be a long one. My gut feel is that any fix this side of christmas would be a bonus.

    The impression I was given is, that for the time being, replacement with the same type of injector is the current treatment so I doubt Jarvis are holding out for long term fix.

    I doubt my country Victoria dealer has any more leverage than Jarvis so based on leadtimes (back in May when I had my problem, the leadtime was three days) I guess the fact that the leadtime is now in the weeks is an indicator as to how this problem has grown in recent times.

    I hope the information I was given was accurate and that no damage is being done to your rig (or anyone else's).
    2008 D4D GXL A5 Charcoal Grey-Lightforce 240XGT-Tough Dog 40mm Big Bore Adjustable Shocks-Dobinson Springs-Mickey Thompson MTZ-Safari Snorkel-Uniden SX400RM-ARB Fridge-Ranox triple battery install-Custom CarPC setup-Steinbauer-Humex Exhaust-ARB Deluxe Winch Bar-ARB Compressor-ARB Rear Locker-Avenger Mako 9500lb Winch

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    • Originally posted by any120
      Mav,
      What I was told today probably had a bit of damage control spin about it so "soon" is a matter of perspective.

      They key point for me is that something is happening behind the scenes so there is light at the end of the tunnel - it's just that the tunnel might be a long one. My gut feel is that any fix this side of christmas would be a bonus.

      The impression I was given is, that for the time being, replacement with the same type of injector is the current treatment so I doubt Jarvis are holding out for long term fix.

      I doubt my country Victoria dealer has any more leverage than Jarvis so based on leadtimes (back in May when I had my problem, the leadtime was three days) I guess the fact that the leadtime is now in the weeks is an indicator as to how this problem has grown in recent times.

      I hope the information I was given was accurate and that no damage is being done to your rig (or anyone else's).
      Thanks any120, I am not blaming Jarvis a t all for the predicament I am in. They can only do their best but when Toyoa fail to authorise Denso to send the injectors then there is very little Jarvis could do bar what they did for me to get me going again.
      Roll on the 2010 Pradopoint GTG
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      • On the subject of dirty diesel fuel. Toyota manual says "Select cetane number 50 (Cetane Index 45) or higher".
        The Australian Fuel Standard (see the link below) requires the Cetane index to be at least 46 (higher than Toyota recommended).
        http://members.ozemail.com.au/~avdw/pdf ... ndards.pdf

        Shell claim that their Diesoline 50 diesel fuel is "Typically cetane index 49".

        Caltex - Cetane number 50 for Caltex Diesel, but Cetane index is 46 minimum for their both Low and Ultra low Sulfur diesel fuels.
        I rang Mobil today on 1800 number and was told that Mobil makes diesel fuel with Cetane index of 46.

        BP claims their BP Diesel 50 ppm is Cetane index min 46 and typically 51.
        BP Ultimate diesel fuel is "Typically, what they call a Cetane RATING is 50 min, Typically 55-60-WHAT?" What is Rating? Don't we all love those marketing people? See the link to the technical datasheet below:
        http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_interne ... 022008.pdf
        In a nutshell, all major players comply with Aus. Standard to keep a cetane index at least 46. And this index 46 is higher than the specified by Toyota index 45. Therefore, Toyota should not blame oil companies for the poor diesel fuel quality at all. Obviously there are some companies with better fuel than others, but all in all, they all comply.
        It looks like the problem is a Toyota design flaw of the fuel system/filtering in Prados. BTW, has anyone heard any problems with Hiluxes fitted with D4D engine? Are they experiencing the same problems as Prados?
        Sorry for the long post guys, but this issue is a very concerning one indeed.
        I also spoke yesterday to the techie from the dealership I bought my Prado from and, you guessed it, he never heard of this "rattling D4D engine" problem before.
        Cheers
        September 2016 GX Auto, D4D, Black, Stock standard.

        Comment


        • Guys - this is probably obvious but after asking my sister (who works at a legal firm) about warranty etc - she flicked it to her other half who's an accountant at a respectable car dealer in Adelaide (and knows his stuff) had this to say....i have deleted names for obvious reasons.....if required, i may also seek an official legal stance on the matter but i probably should read my manual! Anyway - here's the reply....

          "Hey Dood

          %$#* sent this email to me. Basically under the ABCD warranty program, anything that is identified as a fault on a vehicle during the warranty period but is not rectified until after the warranty expiry date, will be covered by the warranty, similarly if a fault is identified during the warranty period and recurs again outside of the warranty period, then that will be covered. However, unless there is a manufacturer recall, these faults are on a car by car basis. So assuming there is no factory recall, and if this engine problem doesn’t occur on your car until outside of the warranty period, then there is no grounds to go back to the manufacturer. Most warranty booklets provided with new car sales are fairly comprehensive and would come to the same conclusion.


          If I was you, I would ask someone else in your club how they first noticed the fault, and then take your car to the dealer and tell them that you are experiencing the same fault. That way it will be on record and even if the dealer can’t “repeat the fault you have identified”, they will at least have some record on file before your warranty expires and that way you should be covered.


          Hope that kind of helps"

          ....So there you have it. Not the legal opinion but one that should make sense to us.
          Easter-08 White GXL D4D Auto - delivered in near record time (5d) from placement of order. Has turned into a "Bermuda" or "Swiss fund" where $ get lost or converted into mods/accessories.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by mav
            Originally posted by masso
            THEN as i accelerate a bit briskly... a LOUD noise like a slipping belt!
            Gees Masso, mine did something similar this morning but it was not a whine like a belt it was more like when an auto transmission clonks down a gear when you accelerate, except I was idling and not moving. Then it was like I had a lumpy cam installed with the Prado rocking from side to side. Only lasted till it warmed up but I fear that my engine problems are getting worse.

            Still waiting for the call to say they have received the injectors.

            Toyota does have a procedure to follow for the D4D rattle and it requires the dealership to do a range of tests then those results go to Toyota who then give the authority for the swap if any of the injectors are out of tolerance. They also send the authority through to Denso to supply the dealership with the injectors.

            I will add that the tech that is doing my injectors when they arrive told me that not all dealerships have the expertise to do the injector change out or the equipment to run the testing. He quite frankly said that if the dealership had not done one before he would be loathed to get them to do it. Apparantly it is a very involved process to do the change out and literally an all day job.

            When the swapped out just the worst one of mine it took 3 hours.

            Picked the car up from the Dealer last night. The SLIPPING BELT noise was diagnosed as an intercooler pipe that had come adrift ! (during the 40K service no doubt!) They waffled on about it being a faulty clamp....yeah yeah... more like faulty bloke doing it up!!!! Anyway..it was cool in Brisbane last night and car had been at dealers since lunchtime.. so .of course.. it rattles its way home.

            This morning, (another cold morning in Brissie!) I tried something. Started the car in the garage and put the IDLEUP switch on...left it idling at 1600rpm or so..... then took the garbage bins out... (a 90 second exercise!) ..returned to jump back in the truck and drive off... guess what... NO RATTLE... drove off just like it did when it had 10K on the clock...

            So , is the moral of the story.. TAKE OUT THE BINS EVERY MORNING?
            2010 D4D GXL auto.: 275/65/17 BFG's /ARB Colour Coded Deluxe Bar / IPF fogs / IPF XD Driving lights / OME Suspension / ARB Towbar / Electric Brake Controller/ Safari Snorkel / "Clark Rubber" Mudflap extensions / GME UHF with town and country antennas / RMW Seat covers & Dash Mat / Full window tint/ ARB~Outback Modular Drawers and Fridge Slider/Cargo Barrier/ ARB Dual Battery Installation with rear outlets/HD Rhino Roof Racks..

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mjforder
              any120 - more great input to the topic - thanks! My truck has the 6pin connector. Nice to know that i may have a good chance of having a problem!!

              :roll:

              As a side comment - can someone pls post sound or video/sound footage of "the rattle"?

              thanks

              michael
              Michael I tried this morning but my audio recorder was not good enough to do the job. So today I went out and purchased a digital voice recorder that records in MP3 format and is usb compatible. So I have now done a recording of what mine sounds like when it is warm. Tomorrow morning I will do a recording of what it sounds like when it is cold. so that you can hear the comparison between the two.

              Cheers

              Mav
              Roll on the 2010 Pradopoint GTG
              Pradopoint GTG website:
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              • Originally posted by Hornet
                It looks like the problem is a Toyota design flaw of the fuel system/filtering in Prados. BTW, has anyone heard any problems with Hiluxes fitted with D4D engine? Are they experiencing the same problems as Prados?.........I also spoke yesterday to the techie from the dealership I bought my Prado from and, you guessed it, he never heard of this "rattling D4D engine" problem before.
                Cheers
                Hornet,

                As for the Hilux's with D4D's I can honestly say I have never heard them do this. We had about 25 Hilux's over the last year and a half at work, and belive me they are driven without care at all. Spoke with our mechanic at work and he has yet to hear it. We do have one Prado though but its brand spankers.
                Regards,

                Big Fella

                2007 Prado GXL D-4D Auto. Black. Cooper ATR's, ARB Bull Bar, Safari Snorkel, ARB Dual Battery, Sandgrabba Mats, Black Duck Seat Covers, Plastic Bits on the front, Mesh Grill Guard, Tinted Front Windows, Towbar, Reverse Sensors, Lightforce Blitz 240's, ORS Drawer System. ScanguageII, Stebel Truck Horn, Icom 440 UHF Radio and BIlstein/Ridepro Premium Lift Kit.

                If you can't fix it with a hammer...... you have an electrical problem.

                [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/pradovx96/Web%20photos/emailsig.jpg[/img]

                Comment


                • Though you might find some related info here: (Hilux d4d issues+

                  http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/ca...ng.asp?cls=199

                  Mick
                  [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
                  Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mjforder
                    any120 - more great input to the topic - thanks! My truck has the 6pin connector. Nice to know that i may have a good chance of having a problem!!

                    :roll:

                    As a side comment - can someone pls post sound or video/sound footage of "the rattle"?

                    thanks

                    michael
                    Okay Michael I have done the recordings and uploaded them to mediafire.

                    My car is 100 times quieter now that the worst injector has been replaced by the secondhand dodgy one but the rattle from the injectors is still noticeable. All these recordings were done from inside the cab.

                    First one is parked in my carport, first startup for the day, ambient air temp was 5C.

                    http://www.mediafire.com/?mtxewkvgtnl

                    The second is just after first startup doing some accelerating:

                    http://www.mediafire.com/?ztdmcu12ccj

                    The third is an extension of the second file, engine still cold and car accelerating:

                    http://www.mediafire.com/?9wp9hyydzrz

                    The fourth is when the engine is warm and car accelerating:

                    http://www.mediafire.com/?7zmgtmonmoh


                    Hope the above helps you out.
                    Roll on the 2010 Pradopoint GTG
                    Pradopoint GTG website:
                    [url="http://www.pradopointgtg.com"]http://www.pradopointgtg.com[/url] (final website location on its own domain)
                    My Weather Station In Alice
                    [url="http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/"]http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/[/url]
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                    [img]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j115/hayesy72/logo-1.jpg[/img]

                    Comment


                    • Mav - on behalf of the D4D community of owners - many thanks for these recordings. As you state, if its now 100 or so times better, id hate to have heard what it was originally like. Certainly sounds like a box of nuts and bots have been placed in the crank case.
                      Easter-08 White GXL D4D Auto - delivered in near record time (5d) from placement of order. Has turned into a "Bermuda" or "Swiss fund" where $ get lost or converted into mods/accessories.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mjforder
                        Mav - on behalf of the D4D community of owners - many thanks for these recordings. As you state, if its now 100 or so times better, id hate to have heard what it was originally like. Certainly sounds like a box of nuts and bots have been placed in the crank case.
                        Your welcome, always happy to help where I can.

                        Before the really bad one was swapped out I reckon people were ducking for cover on the other side of town :lol:
                        Roll on the 2010 Pradopoint GTG
                        Pradopoint GTG website:
                        [url="http://www.pradopointgtg.com"]http://www.pradopointgtg.com[/url] (final website location on its own domain)
                        My Weather Station In Alice
                        [url="http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/"]http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/[/url]
                        My photo website:
                        [url="http://centralian.redbubble.com/"]http://centralian.redbubble.com/[/url]

                        [img]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j115/hayesy72/logo-1.jpg[/img]

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                        • Originally posted by mav
                          Originally posted by mjforder
                          Mav - on behalf of the D4D community of owners - many thanks for these recordings. As you state, if its now 100 or so times better, id hate to have heard what it was originally like. Certainly sounds like a box of nuts and bots have been placed in the crank case.
                          Your welcome, always happy to help where I can.

                          Before the really bad one was swapped out I reckon people were ducking for cover on the other side of town :lol:
                          you probably should have stuck some ply wood cut-outs of a sherman tank and gun turret on to complete the improvisation!

                          Hey - just wondered, does your rig have the 3 or 6 pin common rail connector? it appears that at some stage, Toyota changes the injection control - and it is obvious for us non Toyota techs by seeing HM wires are on this plug. Maybe the problem (???) - is only with the 3-pin version of the fuel delivery system?????
                          Easter-08 White GXL D4D Auto - delivered in near record time (5d) from placement of order. Has turned into a "Bermuda" or "Swiss fund" where $ get lost or converted into mods/accessories.

                          Comment


                          • Dealership Demo vehicle now affected by rattle too !

                            Mav & others,

                            I am a newbie who lurked on the forum before ordering a Prado D4D (option pack1) which I collected 4 days ago. Very sad to hear about this problem, when my vehicle is just 450Km old ! I guess the only way I can try and avoid the same issue is to use fuel conditioning additives regularly and stick to BP Diesel.

                            For some reassurance, one demo model Prado at Scifleet in Brisbane has developed the same problem and they have Toyota around today with whom they will raise it. The demo model was always topped up with BP Diesel but got no fuel conditioning additives. Thankfully, atleast one dealership will not be in denial about the problem. They have promised to keep me updated.

                            In the meantime, I have forked out $1640 for an extended 3 year warranty ! This will be a test of Toyota's integrity.

                            Siva
                            (St Lucia, Brisbane)

                            Comment


                            • Hey mav I just had a listen to your sound files. I'd have to say that it sounds very similar to mine in the morning. Although the recordings probably don't really do it any justice. Mine hasn't sounded any different from the day I picked it up.

                              How are they supposed to run when they're cold? I'm guessing not as quiet as when they're warm?
                              2008 GXL M6 D4D, Silver
                              Build Up---> [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=2315[/url]

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                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Crammy
                                Hey mav I just had a listen to your sound files. I'd have to say that it sounds very similar to mine in the morning. Although the recordings probably don't really do it any justice. Mine hasn't sounded any different from the day I picked it up.

                                How are they supposed to run when they're cold? I'm guessing not as quiet as when they're warm?
                                You will have a normal diesel sound but not the real tinny clattering sound like a broken baffle in a muffler. If you listen into the sound file you will hear what I mean. Like I said previously in the thread that my engine sounds 100 times better now that the worst injector has been swapped out.
                                Roll on the 2010 Pradopoint GTG
                                Pradopoint GTG website:
                                [url="http://www.pradopointgtg.com"]http://www.pradopointgtg.com[/url] (final website location on its own domain)
                                My Weather Station In Alice
                                [url="http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/"]http://www.alicespringsweather.a60.us/[/url]
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