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  • old/new 1KZTE compatibility

    G'day All,

    not exactly a Prado issue/question, so please forgive me. Target , members with engine knowledge...

    This is on our 1996 Hiace Super Custom people mover van... after much mucking around and some clever investigative work (clever because my sons did most of it), we've come to the very plausible conclusion that our gas-in-the-coolant problem is caused by porous or micro cracked block/cylinder liner.

    This because we tracked down the mechanic who did all the recent head, gasket, radiators etc work without fixing the problem hence concluding - by logic more than observation - that the block was kaput.

    He also told us that he had proof that the engine had been extensively cooked.

    Ok then, decision made, we replace the engine (plan B, rebuild).

    My son says let's buy a "good" wreck (rolled, rear-ended) take the motor out and ebay the rest of the good bits. He's done it before successfully with his '97 petrol Hilux 4x4.

    Given that the 1KZTE is used in Prados, Hiluxes/Surfs and who knows what else, if we come across a 1KZTE from a newer vehicle, say 1999-2002, what's the chances of show-stopper incompatibilities between oldish vs newish engines?

    Any opinions and experiences welcome.

    lm
    1991 LN130 Surf Turbo 2.4lt 2LT-E
    and
    1996 KZH100 Hiace Super Custom Turbo 3.0lt 1KZ-TE

  • #2
    Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

    I'd be surpised if it was your block. They are bullet proof, it's the heads that are the weak link.

    What head work was done? I'd still suspect the head... they often crack in the intake runners or under the pre-combustion chambers and it can take quite an expierenced eye to find them.

    Backto the engines... all the 1kz are all basically the same in regards to bolt in replacement, with only relatively minor in production changes. Things to watch out for are different injection pumps (Early ones have mechanical pumps with various electronic pumps fitted as time went by)
    The other major change is intake manifolds, they are different between intercooled and non intercooled models and some are fly by wire and some cable throttle.

    I'd still bet good money the issue lies with the head.

    Mick
    [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
    Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

      thanx for the prompt reply Mick, I appreciate your comments about the block, it is good logic but there have been talks of porous cylinder liners in other forums and that's what the mechanic also referred to.

      He also told us that the van was cooled by water only, no antifreeze, for a log period of time and that could have caused internal corrosion problems due to cavitation and acidity (not that I fully understand all that).

      Re the head, it appears that it got all the appropriate tests done by a reputable head shop and found to be good although it did get shaven a certain amount and a new thicker gasket was installed.

      At the end of the day, it is the mechanic's opinion that the problem rests with the block, and for us to prove otherwise would be too much effort, time and expenses we can't justify. We'll go ahead and look for a suitable newer engine.

      thanx also for your comments on differences or lack thereof, we will transfer whatever accessories and parts that are different from the old engine to the new one

      Luigi
      1991 LN130 Surf Turbo 2.4lt 2LT-E
      and
      1996 KZH100 Hiace Super Custom Turbo 3.0lt 1KZ-TE

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

        Update...

        after reviewing your comments (Mick's especially and others') and thinking about the whole situation, we decided to do things a bit different.

        Also yesterday my son spoke to the people that refurbed the head, they confirmed that they couldn't find any faults/cracks after doing the appropriate tests, supposedly pressure test on the heated up head.

        BUT, when my son pressed them on how sure they were that there weren't possible cracks in places hard to detect like behind the precombustion cups, they said "well, bring it back and we'll test it again for free"! Humm...

        So another change of course, head coming off this weekend and off to the engineers next week.

        will keep you posted

        lm
        1991 LN130 Surf Turbo 2.4lt 2LT-E
        and
        1996 KZH100 Hiace Super Custom Turbo 3.0lt 1KZ-TE

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

          Well I hope it all works out. While a new head may seem expensive it will only be half the price of a good second hand 1kz as they are popular and demand a high premium.

          I made the same mistake this time last year when I did a chemical crack test on a mates Surf. I only did the face of the head and found nothing.

          Two weeks later it was off again and a more careful check found a crack in the intake port.

          Heads out of China are around the $800 mark from memory and are identical to the Toyota one (down to casting marks and numbers)

          Mick
          [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
          Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

            Mick (and others),

            we still haven't lifted the head, son had other farm related priorities.

            In the meantime I've done more research. From the Surf forum it has transpired that Prados use the so called Long-Valve head. All model/year Prados? Or was the LV head introduced in more recent times? And on HILUXes as well?

            thanx

            lm
            1991 LN130 Surf Turbo 2.4lt 2LT-E
            and
            1996 KZH100 Hiace Super Custom Turbo 3.0lt 1KZ-TE

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

              From the Surf forum it has transpired that Prados use the so called Long-Valve head. All model/year Prados? Or was the LV head introduced in more recent times? And on HILUXes as well?
              Sorry about the delayed reply. I asked around a few people I know about this as I have read the same thing. I'm still not sure if it's all urban myth stuff as no one could give me first hand details of the differences.

              From the information I have; the complete heads are interchangeable but there may be differences in valves and cams so there may be an issue with swapping these parts across heads.

              What I have done myself is put a new, bare "Prado" head on a 1996 Surf and there were no issues fitting valves, cam, manifolds etc. This head came out of China and was simply listed as a "Prado 1kz" head.

              The head was sourced by Chris Milton Engine developments here in Adelaide and was done as a bit of and R&D exersise as they also got a genuine Toyota head in for another customer.

              In their opinion (and mine for that matter) the heads were identical and most likely out of the same factory in China. The cost of the Chinese head was around $900 compared to $1700 genuine (About 2 years ago now)

              Personaly, until I see some proof of the differences (ie in person or pictures) I still think they are all interchangeable.

              If you have enough time you could go through the ToyoDIY website (http://www.toyodiy.com/) and compare all the part numbers of heads, valves, cams etc, on all the various vehicles that came with a 1kz.

              Mick
              [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
              Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: old/new 1KZTE compatibility

                OK, more info.

                There are two heads for the 1kz series engine.

                The early heads (1kz-T from 1993 to approx 1996) have a valve length of 103.5mm.

                The later heads (1kz-TE from 1996 on) have a valve lenght of 104.4mm.

                This production change coinsides approximately with the change from a mechanical pump to an electronic one(1kz-T being mechanical injection and the 1kz-TE being electronic), however there may have been a short change over period so anything from around late 1995 through to early 1997 could be either head.

                The heads are interchangeable as complete units, they share the same rebuild kits (seals/gaskets/guides), they use the same cam shaft belt, they share head and manifold gaskets and use the same head bolts.

                I would suggest the later head is the preferable choice of the two as the extra valve length indicates Toyota may have beefed up the castings some what to give it extra strength and counter the cracking issue that plagued the early 1kz.

                Mick
                [CENTER][B][I][SIZE=1][COLOR=blue]1KZ-TE Turbo Diesel, 5 speed manual, 3.5 inch lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ, D-Tronic chip, Boost controller, mandrel exhaust, dump pipe, modified intake, ARB steel bar, Magnum winch, Safari snorkel, rear drawers, half cargo barrier, dual batteries, Uniden UHF, Sat Nav, reverse camera, Magellan XL , Tjm bash plates, ARB alloy roof rack, rear telescopic work light and numerous other modifications!!!
                Now with 3BAR MAP sensor & 18PSI Boost![/COLOR][/SIZE][/I][/B][/CENTER]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MickL View Post
                  OK, more info.

                  There are two heads for the 1kz series engine.

                  The early heads (1kz-T from 1993 to approx 1996) have a valve length of 103.5mm.

                  The later heads (1kz-TE from 1996 on) have a valve lenght of 104.4mm.

                  This production change coinsides approximately with the change from a mechanical pump to an electronic one(1kz-T being mechanical injection and the 1kz-TE being electronic), however there may have been a short change over period so anything from around late 1995 through to early 1997 could be either head.

                  The heads are interchangeable as complete units, they share the same rebuild kits (seals/gaskets/guides), they use the same cam shaft belt, they share head and manifold gaskets and use the same head bolts.

                  I would suggest the later head is the preferable choice of the two as the extra valve length indicates Toyota may have beefed up the castings some what to give it extra strength and counter the cracking issue that plagued the early 1kz.

                  Mick
                  I'm about to buy a complete AMC head from SMS Diesel. They are telling me that my motor has the shorter valves, and that I need to fit the shorter valve head as the later motors had recesses in the piston face. However my Prado is a UK import with a October 1998 build date. When I check the valve part numbers on Toyodiy my intake valves are 13711-54020, and my exhaust valves are 13715-67020. How do I make sure which head I need? Or can someone confirm whether the complete heads are interchangeable?
                  95 3.0 Camp Car, 150 V6 Daily Driver[SIZE=4]
                  [/SIZE]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by fridayman View Post
                    I'm about to buy a complete AMC head from SMS Diesel. They are telling me that my motor has the shorter valves, and that I need to fit the shorter valve head as the later motors had recesses in the piston face. However my Prado is a UK import with a October 1998 build date. When I check the valve part numbers on Toyodiy my intake valves are 13711-54020, and my exhaust valves are 13715-67020. How do I make sure which head I need? Or can someone confirm whether the complete heads are interchangeable?
                    I am not an engine rebuilder (and only had to replace the head on my 1KZ-TE, ie the deeper one), but as I understand it the "thicker" head was required on the later Prados (to stop the cracked head problem) when the power went up by 10+kw on the intercooled 1KZ. The Hiluxes made less power due lacking the IC. The longer valves were simply to make up for the couple of mm that was added to the depth of the head. I didn't think that the valves actually protruded any further into the chamber. Anyone else know anything different?
                    All being equal I would go with the deeper head if I could.

                    Comment

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