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  • #16
    Originally posted by amts View Post
    If you increase the preload of a spring (eg. moving the spring seat on the Bilstein strut to a higher position) you gain more lift. The spring rate is still the same.
    Yes, I am aware of this. Moving the seat of a spring up the strut will increase ride height. This is the same way that ride height is adjusted on many coil over struts, as well as Bilstein struts, Ironman Struts and Ridepro struts. In fact Ridepro struts have 5 positions for the circlip which means that they can also be used in a Hilux by changing the circlip position accordingly.

    To clarify; given a constant spring seat height (like that of a standard strut), the ride height of a given vehicle is a function of spring length and spring rate.

    Originally posted by amts View Post
    Also, the way we measure ride height does not equate to spring compression at the front axle. There is a multiplier involved. eg. if someone achieves 50mm lift, this does not mean that the distance between the top strut mount and the strut eye has changed by 50mm. It is in fact less than this.
    Correct, a ride height change of 50mm at the wheel is approximately 25mm at the front strut. Conversely, if you increased the weight on the front of the car by 50kg (eg:by adding a steel bullbar and 2nd battery), then this is multiplied at the strut so that the front springs have to carry approximately another 50kg each.
    Peterpilot
    Avid PP Poster!
    Last edited by Peterpilot; 22-06-2011, 05:31 PM.
    "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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    • #17
      I measured a rear TEMS shock absorber out of my car today and while the extended length is the same 575mm as a regular OE shock, it seems that the TEMS mechanism inside the shock reduces copmression by 31mm for a closed length of 387mm. I guess that's why the rear bump stops are different in the TEMS equipped Grande compared to the conventional Prados.
      "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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      • #18
        Added Lovells Gas Legend strut and shock data according to what Lovells quoted me. I'm not convinced that it's correct, 510mm extended length for a strut seems very short, but Lovells say it's good for up to a 50mm lift.
        "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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        • #19
          Additional information about the Bilstein front strut and their circlip adjustable spring seat after I visited the Bilstein distributor and had a look at a Bilstein BE5-A712 strut:

          1: The bottom circlip position is the standard height position which equates to the same distance from spring seat to bottom suspension mount as a Toyota strut.
          2: Each circlip groove is spaced 7mm apart which should equate to about 14mm lift per groove or 28mm from bottom to top position.
          3: Bilstein quoted me 552mm as the open length of the strut, I measured the strut and confirmed.
          Peterpilot
          Avid PP Poster!
          Last edited by Peterpilot; 18-07-2011, 11:15 AM.
          "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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          • #20
            Toughdog data added.
            "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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            • #21
              FYI
              2003 Petrol V6 Prado Grande TEMS OEM front strut and coil length:
              Extended = 536mm Closed = 416 Travel 120mm
              Coil Free Length 362mm (100k klms)
              Marc, 2003 Grande V6, Just a Bit of Stuff Done..........Work in progress.
              [url=http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?21168-1Coolbanana-s-Grande-Build-Up]1Coolbanana's rig build up[/url]

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              • #22
                Toughdog BM401111 data added, which is an adjustable rear shock to suit 80/100 series Landcruisers as well as the 150 series Prado.
                "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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                • #23
                  I measured up my tough dog Hilux front struts, I have fitted to my Prado and the front end now has approx 70mm full droop. Pretty happy with that !
                  [CENTER][B][U]Matt
                  [/U][/B]2012 Silver GXL TD 6 Speed manual with some stuff..
                  [/CENTER]
                  [CENTER][SIZE=2]My 2008 Lifestyle 360i camper - [URL]http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=21797.0[/URL]
                  My 4WD Action write up 2004 120 V6 Prado - [URL]http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/2012/complete-package[/URL][/SIZE][/CENTER]
                  [SIZE=2]
                  [/SIZE][CENTER][SIZE=2]
                  [/SIZE][/CENTER]

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                  • #24
                    Thanks Matt, I believe the Toughdog Hilux strut is the same strut body as the Toughdog Prado strut with the spring seat 15-20mm higher and possibly a little more firmly valved. You should also find that you have a bit more droop with those Toughdogs compared to the Billies.
                    "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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                    • #25
                      Peter,
                      The Ironman 24682FE (rear foam cell shock) has the same open/closed length as the nitro gas shock
                      open 618mm
                      closed 373mm

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                      • #26
                        Hate that word "droop"

                        Someone should blow up "droop" Can't we say "Postive frontal incline"
                        [B][COLOR=blue]Bitumen: A blatant waste of taxpayers money![/COLOR][/B]
                        [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=12197&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=d"]My rig buildup[/URL] [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/album.php?albumid=141"]Mundaring Power Lines Jan 01[/URL] [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuQmi3Tgoe0&feature=feedu=d"]You Tube Video Morgan Quarry[/URL]

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                        • #27
                          Or we could say "maximum suspension extension"
                          "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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                          • #28
                            Can anyone confirm the open/close length of the Toughdog adjustable rear shock? I rang 4WD1 today and got a cagey response. The salseguy just said "if you like, just buy it. Don't worry about the specs." I'm looking at selecting a shock that has a good open length to suit a raised Grande on the 'high' setting and still have enough droop. Currently, the Ironman foam cells seems to fit the bill but I was considering the TD adjustables for its adjustments and it's apparent clean sweep at the 4WD Action comparo.

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                            • #29
                              Toughdog have become cagey with me lately also, the Toughdog specs are what Toughdog quoted me over the phone when they were talking. If you specifically want a longer travel adjustable rear shock, go for the Toughdog BM401111. This shock is valved identically to the BM401116, but is listed to suit the 150 Prado and the 80/100 series Landcruiser (up to 50mm lift). The risk is that Toughdog said they wouldn't warrant the BM401111 on a 120 Prado because it isn't in their catalogue for that vehicle. However, consumer law would dictate that if the shock itself was faulty at manufacture, then they would be obligated, but if you tried to claim for example that the shock caused your airbag to pop, then they would not.
                              "Sure it’s quiet, for a diesel, but that’s like being well-behaved… for a murderer."- Jeremy Clarkson

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                              • #30
                                Well these were the values I got from John at toughdogdealer.com.au (via email) back in April 2011 when I was investigating putting 150 suspension onto my 120.

                                BM404600 Front Adjustable Struts Open 564mm Compress 425mm
                                BM401116 Open 550mm compress 360mm


                                Since the 150 into 120 exercise, I have discovered that the pin on the 150 factory rear shock has a larger diameter and will not fit into the hole in the shock mounting point in the 120. Maybe this is one reason why the BM401111 will not fit on the 120.

                                I've got another lead to follow up on and will report back.

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