Clutch life expectancy?

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

My truck has just had its 120,000km service. I had nothing to ask the service centre to look at, because everything is going beautifully as far as I'm concerned. Imagine my surprise when I was told on the phone that they reckoned it needed a new clutch, because (they said) the pedal was "very heavy". This was going to cost me a lazy $2400. I found this very hard to swallow, because I was not aware of the slightest symptom of any clutch problem, and the pedal seemed to me to be the same as when I bought the car, at about 60,000km. So I didn't do it. I'm not very mechanically savvy, so I got a rev-head friend who knows a lot more about these things to give it a little drive, and his opinion was that if there was anything wrong with the clutch, it was a long way from needing replacement.

The service was done at a Toyota dealer (yeah I know, I know) - only because it is still covered by an extended Toyota warranty I bought along with the car. It really smells like a blatant attempt at over-servicing to me, and the more I think about it the more annoyed I get. I'm seriously considering getting a second opinion (or two), and if it turns out there is no real problem, filing a complaint at Consumer Affairs.

So my questions are:
1. What sort of life should be expected from a clutch? I'm sure it depends on driving style etc - I drive very gently and have not done any really hard off-road work, but the car's first life was as a Hertz rental vehicle in Darwin, so I guess anything could have happened there. I understand that makes it a bit difficult.
2. Is there a definitive way to measure/test/decide that a clutch needs replacing? It seemed to me that just saying the pedal was "very heavy" was a bit flimsy (especially when I don't think it is). Surely this is not just a matter of opinion.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.

Steve

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

How long is a piece of string is probably the answer, as silly as that may sound. Clutch life depends on lots of things however the main issue is the driver and how they use, or abuse it.

Each of the components in the system can wear/damage depending on how they are used.

1. Pressure plate - If the driver drops the clutch or 'shocks it' repeatedly then the diaphragm or springs can be damaged or fatigued over a pretty short period. Once the pressure plate loses its strength, even in one spot, it loses pressure and the clutch will start to slip (not noticeable) and then it will wear out very fast.

2. Clutch plate - If the driver rides the clutch or slips it at the lights then it will wear fast. Also, if the driver rests their foot on the clutch pedal while driving this can slightly take pressure off the plate and it can wear. If you are reversing a trailer or van up a steep drive and the clutch slips and gets hot then its really over and out as far as most clutches go. The damage is usually done and the life is lessened.

3. Throw out bearings - the thing that disengages the pressure plate - will wear quickly if the driver rests their foot on it when driving as it is a bearing that is not designed for lengthy periods of spinning.

4. A worn clutch plate is normally evident if it is slipping (stating the obvious I know) or is taking up when the pedal is almost to the top of the stroke (not near the floor)

5. A 'hard' pedal can indicate the pressure plate is fatigued or damaged as you are asking a smaller area of 'spring' disengage it. This is hard to explain but if you imagine that as you push the clutch pedal it pushes against the pressure plate fingers. The fingers are like levers and help you push. If some are damaged or fatigued then they are not going to help you so you are pushing with less leverage. Also the pressure plate tends to bind as it no longer pushes square. This leads to even faster clutch plate wear.

In reality, taking driver abuse out of the equation, most clutches wear due to a pressure plate issue.

If the vehicle has been bogged in muddy water above the bellhousing dirt may damage and wear them as well.

If I were you I would go and test drive some other prados and see what the pedal is like. This will give you some indication of whether yours is normal or not.

IMO, unless you were about to embark into the simpson desert, I would check the pedal adjustment (freeplay at throwout lever) and drive it till it slips. You need to replace everything anyway so provided you dont keep driving it for weeks once it slips you wont do any more damage.

Keep in mind that anything mechanical can fail so you (or the previous owner) may actually have done nothing wrong and stuff happens. Sometimes you can be lucky. My 4runner 2.8 did over 400k's without a clutch replacement. My subaru did 60k

cheers

[samo Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close samo]

i got 120 thou out of my clutch in 03 gx so and it i would have liked a bit longer but i had got the vehicle when it had 66k on is so what happened before that only god knows, from what i have heard 120 to 160k is the norm. cheers samo

[ronb1002 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ronb1002]

Just had a similar experience. We have had our 07 D4D since new. Just had the 120 K service done (I normally do everything myself but I got lazy). Comment from the dealer when I picked up the car : "We think the clutch pedal pressure is starting to get heavy - might need to watch it." There was no was suggestion of replacement at this stage. Neither my wife nor I had noticed any difference.

Ron.

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

Thanks very much all respondents. I had thought of going and driving a similar vehicle, so might do that. I'm definitely not heading anywhere remote for a while, so I'll take a "watch and wait" approach for now.
And my thinking at the moment is that if/when it is done, it won't be at a Toyota dealer workshop!

Cheers
Steve

[pete8205 Member Find all posts View Profile Close pete8205]

Gday I brought my 06 d4d in feb and the first thing i noticed is the clutch is heavy compared to my ranger and my work hilux its got 80 000k on it however the clutch is a fraction of my old falcon which had a heavy duty performance setup which after driving and jumping in another car i would almost push the clutch pedal through the floor. There are alot of different set ups generally a heavy duty set up is harder to push then a light duty set up and when the mechanic goes from a corolla to the prado like myself from my other cars you first think that the clutch is heavy

to sum up if pedal movement and engagement feels smooth (no shudders etc) and its not slipping don't worry about it

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

Thanks pete8205, like I said it feels perfectly OK to me, so I'm not going to lose any sleep. It just bugs me in the extreme that these service shops take advantage of people's ignorance and fear and fix or replace stuff that is not really necessary and rip big dollars off them. I suspect it happens all the time.

Cheers
Steve

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

Thanks pete8205, like I said it feels perfectly OK to me, so I'm not going to lose any sleep. It just bugs me in the extreme that these service shops take advantage of people's ignorance and fear and fix or replace stuff that is not really necessary and rip big dollars off them. I suspect it happens all the time.

Cheers
Steve

Not really fair Steve. They have told you there is an issue. Whether you choose to fix it is up to you. I can imagine most people would bitch like hell if they werent told and the thing let go in peak hour traffic on a rainy Friday night heading off to the High Country with the camper trailer in tow -------- If you get my drift

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

I do get your drift, but that's not the way it was put to me, i.e. raising an issue. I was told more or less straight out that I had to replace the clutch. No explanation of any shades of grey, degrees of wear etc. And when I said I wasn't going to do it, not a word about how much more life might be left in it, nothing. Maybe you had to be there, but it just didn't ring true at all to me.

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

You are probably right. Its much better when you can find a small outfit where the bloke that runs it talks to you personally and know what they are talkin about.

best of luck!

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

Footnote to the above... I was sufficiently perplexed by all this to take the Prado to an independent repairer (an Auto Masters outlet) and ask them to assess the clutch. They reported that they could find no problem at all with it. So I wrote a letter to the service manager at the original dealer, to express my concern. They stand by their diagnosis (no surprise there), and basically said that the independent guy doesn't know what is what. But the language also changed in a subtle but significant way. In his response the service manager said that "...the clutch pedal was high and needs to be monitored". If that's how it had been put to me on the day, I wouldn't have had a problem, but I had been told "your car needs a new clutch" - quite a different thing. In the interests of completeness I also took the car to another Toyota dealer and asked them to assess the clutch. They also report that they can see no problem with it - they even said that it is "...a characteristic of this vehicle to have a heavier clutch pedal and a higher engagement point". So it would seem that there can be quite a range of opinions on this! I'm not sure if I'm much wiser, but I'll be taking the advice of pete8205 and not losing any sleep over it. I guess the message here is that you don't just take as gospel what a dealer (or any repairer) says, especially when there is a $2400 price attached. Thanks again everyone for all the inputs.

[pete8205 Member Find all posts View Profile Close pete8205]

Its good you were able to get the other mechanics to asses the clutch and get the truth out of the original mechanic. Car sales must have been slow, the $2400 price tag ouch, is the clutch made out of gold. Ive had to replace 3 clutchs in 3 different cars and they cost between $900 and $1300 installed and all had heavy duty daikin clutch (not the cheapest) fitted. and one was for a 4x4.

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

You mentioned that you had an extended warranty. Is this just one of those things on the very long list of 'things not covered'?? Honestly, given the variability within and between cars, how on earth could they tell you that the clutch needs replacing when it doesn't slip? A heavy pedal doesn't really mean anything. My 1kz clutch is heavy, and far heavier than the wife's excel. Should I be expecting the lightness of the excel clutch? No friggin way. Until it starts to slip (it always gives early warning signs) i'd leave it as is....

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Wow. I read the heading to this thread and expected the worst. I read it as "Hutch life Expectancy."

My immediate thought was Oh my God, one of the members (mod I think?) is very ill or in a bad crash.

Much to my relief Hutch has nothing to do with the topic. I slipped up if you will pardon the punn....... as you were.

[marshallarts Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close marshallarts]

iantz - I haven't actually asked the question, but I've assumed all along that it would not be covered by the extended warranty, being a wearable component and all that. Things like brake pads certainly aren't covered, and it's not a lot different. But you're right - no harm asking, just to make sure. I'll also have a careful read of the warranty documents. Some surprises in life are pleasant ones!