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Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

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  • #16
    For the sake of this healthy argument, I disagree with the sentiment that these cars are becoming less suitable for off road use. It all depends on what your expectations are.

    It's clearly demonstrable that these things are getting more and more capable - even in stock trim - than they ever were before. Toyota are doing an incredible job of improving abilities whilst simultaneously improving comforts... urban users will always buy our cars, hell they even buy 70 series occasionally so these buyers need to be considered in design.

    And make no mistake that we benefit from the large volume of users. if the only people using these things were hard core bushies then the lower production volumes would be reflected by higher purchase costs. There'd be less opportunity for experience-based refinement to reliability and durability. There'd be less frequent model revisions, fewer aftermarket items etc etc etc. You don't want to be the owner of an uncommon vehicle.

    So they look a bit swish, they get scratched, you get mud in the carpet. I'd rather drive a car that keeps me safe & comfortable than a tin box that I can hose out.

    As for the ability to take accessories like bullbars & stiff springs... these are modern, high tech 4wd vehicles. Don't try to turn them into trucks. If you want an old-style 4wd & all the durability that comes with it, don't buy a Prado, buy a troopy. You'll have to drive 2/3s the pace but will still go deaf, your back will go, your fillings will fall out, you'll be exhausted by the sun pouring in through the windows and reflecting off the bonnet (if you haven't driven a troopy in the desert then just trust me it's like being on snow but hotter) & fatigued beyond belief. Great trip. Body panels didn't crack. Yay I'll tell my chiropractor but he'll get the shits cos I'm shouting & he can't understand me anyway cos I'm missing teeth.

    And if you are still interested in the bush you'll go buy a Prado - just drive the damned thing don't mess around with it - and you'll never look back.
    Last edited by Gordon; 04-03-2012, 10:31 AM.
    150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

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    • #17
      Removed orginal
      Last edited by Mack; 04-03-2012, 11:03 AM.
      2010 GXL 150 TD, Auto, Graphite, ARB Bullbar, OME Suspension, Safari Snorkel, Coopers AT3

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Gordon View Post
        I reconcile it with automobile evolution. The cars that can stand having a bullbar ie 100s & earlier couldn't stop or steer anyway and I wouldn't want to drive one (actually still have to drive a 70 wagon for work that's close enough but will end that hell in May at the lease end). These days we have brakes and steering on 4wds so we can actually avoid hitting things. Bullbars are a throwback to the days where we couldn't. And ironically they take our modern cars back to the dark ages by stuffing up the handling and requiring stiffer suspension (stuffing up the ride) to accommodate the extra weight.
        I agreed with this until a roo took out my front end in the middle of QLD. While the computer controlled brakes stopped the car extremely quickly, it was still not enough to stop causing $4500 worth of damage and leaving me stuck in the middle of outback QLD trying to limp my 150 home.
        My first car was a HJ47 troopie which had no comfort and took about 1km to stop. Thankfully the 4x4's of today are in a different league than this but there is still time when a good strength bar will minimize the damage to the vehicle (and allow you to make it home). You can't predict that roo that wants to change direction in front of you rather than jump straight across the road!
        2010 GXL 150 TD, Auto, Graphite, ARB Bullbar, OME Suspension, Safari Snorkel, Coopers AT3

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        • #19
          There's a whole nother discussion around this & I'm going to get a little hippie preacher on you all so skip this post if you're going to vote 1 Tony Rabbit. Hit a budgie or run over a lizard. Don't think twice, maybe a pang of guilt but on you go, foot to the floor. Not so many roos round my parts, but they're the middle ground where a "bull"bar can often make a difference.

          Turn up the dial to camels & cows and you might as well have no bar at all - you certainly wont have one after you hit them. So you have to slow down. There's no other choice. When I realised I was putting the steel bits of my car above the lives of often very cute & harmless little creatures I started driving slower on open roads with poor visibility to the verge. Saves fuel, tyres and stress too.
          150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

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          • #20
            I think Gordon makes some good points.

            I regularly catch up with some friends who live in a country town and use their Landcruisers and Prados for serious 4wd every day of the week to go fishing and surfing. Apart from dual batteries, the cars have very few mods. No lift, springs, wider wheels etc. I've seen these guys go to some crazy places and in fact they generally have a bit of a laugh when they see a heavily kitted 4wd at one of the spots.

            Bottom line a stock car will go a lot of places reliably and regularly, yes it will drag the belly occasionally and collect lots of scratches, but generally from what I've seen the skill of the driver is the biggest factor.
            [B]Steve[/B]

            2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

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            • #21
              Old v new troopies is more of a statement about the old ones than the new ones. Biggest differences are the v8 donk and the usb stick in the dash! Same er...myeffingback...gonomics.

              And Roo, I'm doing all I can on the camel front.. when I serve you that beer I'll have to give you the blind test of cow vs camel eye fillets.
              150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

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              • #22
                Well for me it's the 308 - given the size of their brains its a surer thing. Although the pros I've worked with use 223s for ground shooting cos it's less tiring (and cheaper again).

                Oh yeah cars: You're right TtR suspension revisions to modern troopies have made them the picture of luxury. Close your eyes and you'd think you were in a limmo. Oh no sorry I meant under the limmo.

                I'm in two minds over the engines too. I love the flexibility of the V8s but the 6s were just such a turbine-like smooth engine (provided you have the turbo as the normally aspirated ones were a disaster). And the 8s can get very slappy midlife if the oil has been allowed to drop for any length of time. And I don't buy any of the allegations about differing for/aft wheel-track affecting stability - people just need to learn to drive properly. Still, at the imminent lease-end of my work car it will be turfed in favour of yet another mighty parado
                150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

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                • #23
                  Been keeping a bit of an eye on this thread for a while. We all seem to have gone off topic a bit, lol? Cracks in the guards on 150's?
                  Mine hasn't yet, but only have 20k on the clock and half a bar on the front, no winch. (TJM T3). As for the discussion about older 'Cruisers being tough - as a mechanic I saw plenty of 75 series through the workshop in the 1990's with cracked A pillars. Admittedly, these were invariably driven by surveyors/geologists bush whacking. Lots of stakes through radiators too. They always arrived on the back of a truck, sometimes with the cylinder head and assorted, filthy bits in the cab! Pre-combustion chambers were usually cracked in that case. Moral of the story? As long as cars are being built, there are always problems of some sort.

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                  • #24
                    Well put Gregbeyou. And isn't straying off the track what we're all striving for?
                    G.
                    150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gordon View Post
                      I suggest replicating Toyota's setup on the other side rather than going for an aftermarket steel tray. And stick to the same size battery. Would be the safest option. Then just wire in an isolator or just a relay - I can post pics of the relay wiring if you're interested.
                      Hi Gordo- I'd love to see some pics.
                      [CENTER][/CENTER][B]RYAN[/B]
                      [CENTER][/CENTER]2012 White GXL TD Auto with some stuff...

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                      • #26
                        Will do mate gotta get organised.
                        150 D4D GX with big tyres, TPMS, Tracklander, GME, Safari breathing straw & super soft squishy custom rear springs.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ok I thought it was a time for an update about this.
                          First up, I completely disagree with Gordon's assertion that because vehicles are getting more modern and safer that they cannot be made to do what they are marketed to do. I always try to avoid hitting animals however it is not always possible to drive during the day (unexpected delays etc) and when touring but these things do happen. For remote area touring a steel bar is nigh on essential.
                          I agree that a bullbar will not save you if you hit a camel or a cow, but the odds are far less because they move slowly and more predictably. Kangaroos can accelerate quickly and are completely unpredictable. I hit two big roos last year on the way to the Cape driving 30 kms under the speed limit at dusk because I had an unexpected delay earlier on which meant I couldn't make my destination before dark. Sometimes shit happens. An alloy bar would have been destroyed and the trip would have been over before it began.

                          Why should I expect to have my cake and eat it too? Because I paid $75000 for a Toyota, and not $50000 for a Nissan or Mitsubishi. If I didn't want to do remote touring then I would have gone and bought a sedan rather than an expensive 2.3 tonne ladder frame, live rear axle slug.

                          Ok with that out of the way, time for an update on my guards. Toyota Australia won't come to the party because of their pendulum theory, whereby they believe that the weight of the bar causes the front chassis to flex which puts stress on the bodymount and causes flexing of the guards. Now, in accordance with the trade practice's act Toyota have to prove this theory rather than simply stay 'not covered due to fitment of non-genuine accessories' and if I went to court I would win.
                          ARB are willing to go in to bat for me, however they need written denial of the claim which is proving frustrating.

                          Unfortunately for me I am out of time as I am supposed to be going to the Kimberley next month and the cracks MUST be repaired, so I have already booked it in with a repairer. All items will be removed from the engine bay side of the guard, as will the fender and grill to find any other cracks that may be there.

                          I must say that I am very very dissapointed in general with the attitude of Toyota Australia towards their customers, not just in relation to this particular issue but many others with the previous 120 Prado and 200 Landcruiser. I have never known a company that displays such arrogance towards their customer base. I can see their approach is being driven by bean counters however it is very short sighted and they are doing enormous damage to the brand. They should have just fixed my bloody cracks, because then I would have been more likely to trade up to a 200 cruiser in a few years time. My old man was considering a Toyo to replace his Range Rover Sport - not any more. Likewise a mate of mine is looking at doing a buildup on a tourer and has now excluded the Prado from his considerations. Two more I know are considering Disco 4s when they never would have previously gone Land Rover. I realise Toyota still sell thousands of the things but will it last if they keep this sort of thing up?

                          Attached are some pictures. There are two vertical cracks in the passenger side guard and four in the panel behind the bullbar gusset.




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                          • #28
                            Another update: the guards were fixed at a cost of $880. The repairer took out everything on the guard and removed the fender and went over it with a fine tooth comb. There were more cracks than was visible. They said they've fixed a few.
                            I can highly recommend Autocraft at Brompton, personable and no BS.

                            Apparently the mining fleets have had plenty of issues on Prados and are moving to 200 GX models. I will now have to keep and eye on it - will see how we go.

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                            • #29
                              Another update. I drove up the Tanami and across half the Gibb River Road and the guards held up. Went up Kalumburu Road to Mitchell Falls which was in particularly bad condition and guess what: guards cracked again! I knew the solution was band-aid and that the weakness would move elsewhere, but I was hoping for at least another couple of years.

                              Heartbreaking that the vehicle that cost so much new and I spent so much time turning into the ultimate tourer has turned out to not be up to the job. I don't buy the argument that you should have to drive a Troopy. What is the point of going to the effort of producing a vehicle with seperate chassis and live axle if the front guards can't take driving on gazetted roads without cracking?

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                              • #30
                                I met a bloke yesterday with 11/09 150 with 55k on the clock and cracks on both inner guards. No bullbar, no suspension lift and a small second battery. Says he has done some weekend 4wding over some rough stuff but no long hauls over km's and km's of corrugations. His warranty is up in November 2012. Dealer not helping much, Toyota have now taken a look and taken photos and expects them to get back to him in the next week or so.
                                From reading other post about the 120 and the 150 I'm guessing it's either going to crack or it's not and the mods and conditions don't matter. Either way it's pretty poor that you can spnd all that money on a 4wd to go touring and get this kind of problem in a 2 yr old car. Mine is the same model with only 46k km with with lift and bar..... Nervous about checking at the 55k mark as I will be out of warranty.

                                Apparently he was quoted $8,000 to fix. Have to take everything out, replace inner guards etc etc..... Big job.
                                [B]Black '09 150 D4D GXL[/B]. ARB Winch bar, OME 2"lift, ARB underbody protection, Rock Armour sliders, Runva 11XP Winch, ARB CKMA12 air Compressor, dual batteries, Optima 55ah battery, Safari Snorkel, WetSeat Covers, Outback Ideas Recovery Points, 17x8 Dynamic Wheels, BFG Muddies 265/70r17, Awesome home made rear draws with fridge box & ARB slide, KAON transfer &a actuator guard, ARB front & rear lockers,

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