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Does the Redarc BCDC offer any benefits over an SBI12 system?

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  • #31
    Hi Bazza and any mention of spiking or spike protection is nothing more than deliberately misleading advertising.

    Every single electronic device ever made, has spike protection built in, and note, this is every single electronic device, not just those in your vehicle.

    Furthermore, has anybody ever heard of automotive electronics being damaged by an electrical spike.

    I design and manufacture electronic control devices, mostly automotive electronics and every product I make has spike protection built in.

    If someone bought one of my devices, or anybody else’s 12v products and these products did not have spike protection built in, the first time you use the product in conjunction with any relay, in the device or just you horn or headlight relays, the relay operation would destroy the unprotected product, but would have absolutely no effect on any of your vehicle’s electronics.

    For the non electronic minded, I’ll give you a mechanical equivalent of what this crap about spike protection is like.

    Imagine you are driving down a road passed a new car sales yard and out the front they have a large sign listing all the benefits you get if you by one of their vehicles.

    At the bottom of the list they say all their vehicles come with air in their tyres.

    They couldn’t sell any vehicle without having air in it’s tyres just as no one could sell an electronic device without spike protection, but this spike protection, contrary to the misleading advertising, is of no benefit to you or your vehicle’s electronics.

    This last point is easy to demonstrate.

    There are still a large number of auto electricians who fit dual battery systems which comprise of nothing more than a whooping great solenoid and a switch to turn the solenoid on and off.

    These solenoids have have no spike protection and yet you NEVER hear of vehicles that have been damaged by the spikes this solenoids produce when you turn them off.

    Comment


    • #32
      I don't care what everyone says, I've run the dc dc redarc and its brilliant. Lets compare the condition of our batteries in a few years time and see if it was worth a bit more hard earned cash!
      Black 2011 Prado GXL D4D, Ironman 2" lift, TJM bullbar, TJM sidesteps, TJM steel bash plates, TAG towbar, Icom 440 UHF, redarc bcdc1220 with AGM battery, dual headrest DVD's, Waeco fridge, Cooper AT3's (when I kill these damn dunlops), rhino racks, orange TPMS.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Big Block View Post
        I don't care what everyone says

        ..... then why bother posting a reply to this thread?
        [B]Steve[/B]

        2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

        Comment


        • #34
          At the end of the day people will spend their hard earn money on what ever they like. It's not up to us to judge but to advise what options are available and the pros and cons of each option. Sometimes people require a certain option for their own reasons that some or most of us will not understand. It doesn't matter

          Winston.
          winniliss
          Avid PP Poster!
          Last edited by winniliss; 07-03-2013, 10:53 AM.
          Winston.

          White 2009 120 Series D4D GXL manual.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Big Block View Post
            I don't care what everyone says, I've run the dc dc redarc and its brilliant. Lets compare the condition of our batteries in a few years time and see if it was worth a bit more hard earned cash!
            Including the cranking battery?, on a lot of vehicles these days you need to use the "low voltage"
            version of these DCDC chargers to avoid cycling. Why do they cycle, because when their pulling 40A out
            of the alternator their pulling the alternator down below 13V. This is not ideal for the cranking battery.

            Regarding booster diodes, I've been manufacturing these for over three years now and haven't seen any
            flood of complaints from my customers regarding ruined batteries.

            On the other hand I have sold quite a few to users of DCDC chargers due to cycling and premature
            failure of their cranking batteries.


            Cheers
            Leigh
            LeighW
            Avid PP Poster!
            Last edited by LeighW; 07-03-2013, 09:07 AM.
            HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

            Comment


            • #36
              If the dc-dc is between the crank and aux then it shouldn't affect the cranking battery as it comes 'after.' I've got a C-tek going to my AGM in the back from the crank and a Redarc SBI12 feeding the 2nd under bonnet battery also from the crank. Don't see much difference but they both do different jobs eg: fridge, camp lights etc up back, extra winching power up front. The front aux gets charged faster but the AGM probably gets charged fuller, though not too sure about that.

              Cheers, Jim.


              Edit: Reading your post again Leigh I understand the excessive amp drawing reducing the voltage output but I've got one of your diodes and don't see any problems.
              Ozpat
              Advanced Member
              Last edited by Ozpat; 07-03-2013, 10:56 AM.
              [SIZE=1]Cheers Jim.
              [/SIZE][COLOR=#0000cd]
              2009 120 D4D VX auto, pearl white with [COLOR=#0000cd]matching ARB deluxe bar,[/COLOR] 2" lift with [COLOR=#0000cd]OME springs & Nitro shocks,[/COLOR] 9000lb Warn winch, BFG KO A/Ts, Alloy Rhino roof basket, Safari snorkel, 2 x Optima D27F batteries, Voltage booster from Leigh, Jawa [SIZE=1]off-road camper trailer.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

              Comment


              • #37
                Hi Jim,

                In your case your ok as you have a booster fitted, but for others considering using a high
                output DCDC charger on a vehicle that has a low output voltage alternator they should
                also consider what affect the high current draw of the DCDC charger is going to have
                on the alternators voltage output and the cranking battery.

                Cheers
                Leigh
                HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                Comment


                • #38
                  LeighW,

                  I will soon be fitting a BCDC charger (owners preference) and a SBI12 solenoid only to a 150 Diesel.

                  Correct me if I'm wrong (excuse my ignorance here) in the above set-up you would recommend fitting the diode fuse as well to maintain the start battery thus assuring the 12.5v min required to operate the BCDC charger?

                  Remember in this installation the two batteries will remain isolated all the time with the exception when override is required in case of main battery failure.

                  Hazza
                  Silver 120 Series Diesel GXL 2009 with Option Pack 2, king Springs 2" Lift with 'H' front spring, MT ATZ 4-RIB, Dual Battery, Deluxe ARB Bull-bar, Winch, Towbar, Anderson 50 amp plug at the rear, Weather Shields, Bonnet and Head Light Protectors, Rubber Mats inc Cargo mat, UHF Ariel, Portable Uniden UHF plugs into areal, On-board ARB Compressor, Brains Black Box TG150 Protector, Rear Black Duck Seat Covers.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hazza,

                    I assume your charging an aux in the vehicle via the SBI12 and an aux in a trailer via
                    the BCDC charger?

                    If the above is correct your going to have trouble charging the battery off the SBI12
                    before we even consider the affects of the DCDC charger.

                    Some 150 can get as low as 13.3V normal charge voltage, if you start dragging 40A out
                    to charge one battery the voltage will drop below 13V, if you now add a DCDC charger
                    out putting another 20A (remember a DCDC charger at this voltage will draw around 30A)
                    and assuming the alternator has enough reserve your going to drop the charge voltage
                    available from the alternator down to around 12.5V or lower and we haven't even considered
                    running any other accessories.

                    I think by now you'll see why they now make low voltage input versions of the DCDC chargers
                    for the latest vehicles, the salesman never bother to mention though what affect they will have
                    on the cranking battery.

                    Bottom line is you really need to use a booster diode to ensure the cranking battery is properly charged
                    and to get a reasonable charge time for the aux connected via the SBI12.

                    If I was you I would try the booster and connect both aux's off the SBI12 and see how they go,
                    if the one in the trailer doesn't get enough charger you can always add a DCDC charger later.

                    Cheers
                    Leigh
                    LeighW
                    Avid PP Poster!
                    Last edited by LeighW; 03-04-2013, 01:07 PM.
                    HKB Electronics, manufacturer of the Alternator Voltage Booster, Silver 2008 D4D,Lifted,Underbody protection, Alternator Voltage Booster, Tiger Z winch, Lightforce DL, Air Horns, Tanami Drawers, Drop down fridge slide, Outback cargo barriers, Rotronics dual Battery system, Polaris GPS, HF/UHF/VHF, Radio speaker combiner, Long ranger water tank, Diff breathers, Inverter, Snorkel and others

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Thanks guys. You've just convinced me. I just purchased a Redarc SBI12 for the second battery and I will use my solar panels to charge the portable battery in the rear.
                      Bazza
                      [i]I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints![/i]

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Leigh,

                        No battery in the trailer. DCDC charger looks after the Aux battery in the engine bay drawing current from the main battery. SBI12 isolates the two and does not cut in unless override (momentary on switch) is required. Electronics on SBI12 have been removed.

                        You have answered my question in your last post that being the vehicle most likely will not be able to supply enough to the main battery to satisfy the DCDC chargers draw thus voltage potentially dropping under the min 12.5 v required for it to operate. Add your diode and the main battery is looked after and in turn DCDC charger does its job.

                        Personally I'm happy to leave the DCDC charger out of my vehicle (120 series) and go with your diode. Fitting the DCDC as requested by owner of 150.

                        Will test the voltage (cold and hot) of the 150 when I see it and keep you posted but more than convinced It will need diode either way.

                        Hazza
                        Silver 120 Series Diesel GXL 2009 with Option Pack 2, king Springs 2" Lift with 'H' front spring, MT ATZ 4-RIB, Dual Battery, Deluxe ARB Bull-bar, Winch, Towbar, Anderson 50 amp plug at the rear, Weather Shields, Bonnet and Head Light Protectors, Rubber Mats inc Cargo mat, UHF Ariel, Portable Uniden UHF plugs into areal, On-board ARB Compressor, Brains Black Box TG150 Protector, Rear Black Duck Seat Covers.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Because there is a lot of bad information on this thread and people are making decisions on it. Don't be so hostile, ill post my opinion if I want to just like anyone else has.
                          Black 2011 Prado GXL D4D, Ironman 2" lift, TJM bullbar, TJM sidesteps, TJM steel bash plates, TAG towbar, Icom 440 UHF, redarc bcdc1220 with AGM battery, dual headrest DVD's, Waeco fridge, Cooper AT3's (when I kill these damn dunlops), rhino racks, orange TPMS.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I don't want to inflame the DCDC debate so putting that to the side just wanting to see if there are any issues with the following proposed install based on my use.

                            * 2nd battery in car - exide Ed5 deep cycle. Usage - in car engel fridge in rear. We really only have the fridge and kids electronic stuff on when driving and short stops as it sits in the camper the rest of the time so not much need for extensive draw down.

                            * 3rd battery in camper - AGm 100 a/h. Usage: fridge, led lights, pump etc but have steca regulator and solar panel to keep this topped up. also hAve 240v charger connected to 3rd battery when needed

                            So considering using: the redarc sbi12; voltage diode; 6 b&s cable run to both rear car anderson for trailer and 2nd run to boot; return run back to battery; fuse box in rear connected to a couple plugs (to power fridge, kids electronic stuff)

                            Will the exide as the 2nd be ok for my usage?
                            Should the cable to the 3rd battery in camper be connected to starter or 2nd battery in car?
                            What happens if I run the solar panel or 240v charger and the trailer is connected to the car? Will it also top up the 2nd battery depending on connection option above?
                            Have I missed something really obvious?

                            Still getting my head around this.

                            Thanx
                            Jaysea
                            2012 Prado GXL + Adventure Camper
                            My Travels: [url]http://jaysea007-travel.blogspot.com.au[/url]
                            My photos: [url]http://jaysea007-ttl.blogspot.com.au[/url]

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I have fitted a BCDC1240 to my new 150 to charge my auxillary battery plus the Tvan battery. However, when researching this setup Alan Johnson from Piranha warned me that if I do a lot of short trips I would need to put my starter battery on the Ctek to stop it going flat as the 1240 sucks a lot of power out of the starter battery. Didn't really make sense (I am no electronics expert) however this ties in with what Leigh is saying. I am monitoring the starter battery charge via my scangauge before I start the car in the mornings.
                              Cheers...Wayne
                              White 2012 GXL 150 TD Auto. Work in progress. Aiming to spend less than when I kitted out the 120!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                can someone explain the Diode and its function in this thread? I'm assuming you don't just mean an LED, Ive been looking at the SBI12D (thinking this could be of value to charge both batteries via solar at times) or is it more 'money talk'?
                                120 GXL, D4D Auto 2007 - ARB Deluxe Bar, Warn Tabor 10K and Rec Kit, Safari Snorkel, GME UHF, BFG AT's, Lightforce Spots, Eclipse Sat Nav, Waeco CF40, Optima D27, Redarc Sbi12, Leigh W Diode, Voltmeters, Rhino Pioneer platform, ARB compressor, DIY Trek Table & drawers, HiLux Jets, Breathers, Water pump, rear custom fused electrical system, camp lights, LED's, ARB Roof top tent Annex and Awning, Maxtrax, Hi-Lift, Shovel. [URL="http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27929-DJ-D-s-D4D-120-GXL"]My Build Thread[/URL]

                                Comment

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