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Good or bad idea? 150 V6 with 140.000+ kms...

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  • #16
    To give you an example I bought a 2005 VX V6 auto. 168k klms. 10k worth of accessories including ARB bullbar, lift kit, Redarc duel batteries(new), new Bridgestone A/T, winch, towbar, electric brakes. I paid just north of $20k. I passed on many with asking price around $30k no extras. The owners would not budge.

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    • #17
      Personally, I think a service history is a good indicator of the care the vehicle has been given.
      If its only 1 or 2 services that have been missed, then I'd consider it if it passed an RACV test and everything else on the vehicle is spotless.

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      • #18
        The lift will lower the value of the vehicle IMO. And why lift the vehicle? That will lower resale and cost you money. You won't get much further with a raise ... you'll likely get into more trouble.


        And fuel does cost money ... what mileage will you do? Work out the extra cost.

        IMO, buy a diesel, and don't touch it. OK - a bull bar would be good, if it lacks one.

        You don't have to travel with a world safari setup. That you will not get back when you sell.

        Buy a quick erect tent, such as an Oztent (they take two minutes to erect and fold up a- they sit on the roof, but that saves time because you don't have to clean them before putting inside the vehicle. They save interior space too. An awning on the side of the roof rack can be cool too. A fridge. And some plastic slide drawers that will fit in the vehicle. And some water bottles. If everything is well tied down, you don't even need a cargo barrier - although I'd advise one. And a snatch strap, and some rings for pulling you out. And an EPERB if you get stuck alone.

        And when you buy your vehicle, do a 4WD driving course with your vehicle. You will learn a lot.

        Good luck.
        MelbournePark
        Member
        Last edited by MelbournePark; 21-02-2014, 10:59 AM.

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        • #19
          Considering the crappiness of the stock suspension and the advantages of a lifted vehicle, I consider your opening statement to be bullshit.

          On the second hand market diesels are often way more expensive than petrol. As much as double. That's a lot of fuel and other bits. Take into account the cost of diesel and the idea of saving money is out the window.

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          • #20
            It doesn't matter how good your vehicle is: its the driver that gets it stuck. Unless one is rock climbing, the standard vehicle wisely driven will go a long way.

            The fact is though that if one is by oneself, one shouldn't think the vehicle is going to get you through. There's much more out there that will stop you besides the suspension. Which is why I said do a 4WD course ....

            And the host here is wanting to see Australia. He'll likely be sticking to mapped roads and some tracks. If he does the tracks, he should do it with others.

            As far as diesels go - they do save fuel. Work out the cost - what mileage will you be doing?

            Work out your gear too - the stove, the lights, your bedding, your tent, your fridge, your EPERB, spade, snatch strap, stuff like that. These things are important too.

            And also consider getting Australia's most popular vehicle - the Hilux. You can get for under $30k, under 100k mileage auto turbo diesel Hilux four door with a tray and maybe a cover system on the back tray. They're affordable for you, and reliable. I did a quick search and found one around 100k with a bull bar, a winch, an auto turbo diesel ... you'd likely just have to buy your camping gear, and work out how you'd approach the tray issues ( a lid, frame or a fibreglass frame).

            Turbo diesel auto Hilux's are common, and Tradies sell them because they are tax deductable so they just rollover the lease. Unlike most Prados which are not much tax deductable. And Hilux's a strong and good, and despite being made in Thailand, they're reliable. hence their number one status in Australia, and also in Thailand!!!

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            • #21
              MB how did you go from a prado to a hilux ?? Hilux's are strong !! no Stronger then a prado, same front end only the lux has leaf rear end and shitty drum brakes on the arse. The D4D is ok while its going but with all the issues with injectors etc they have there problems same engine in either vehicle different torque figures. Hilux 343nm prado 410nm. As far as suspension goes when loaded the arse will be dragging especially if loaded chockers for a trip which most people are. It would at least need some airbags to assist. There is a massive difference between stock and after market ride quality. Standard is fine if not loaded, not going off road, and don't mind the feel of a boat and front end nose dive under brakes, totally agree with Beach on this issue. Also as mentioned either hilux or prado will cost a lot more to purchase in diesel form then petrol. Yes the petrol drinks more, no doubt about it BUT diesel as far as I have seen here in Sydney is always dearer at the pump, need injectors done every 100 thou (if your lucky and not before). Oil and filter every 5k if you really like your vehicle, and if some thing does go wrong cost you a shit load more to fix then a petrol. And the $$$ you save buying petrol will certainly buy a lot of extras required if only just starting out. I would certainly own a diesel if I was retired and/or doing a lot of touring/towing. yes petrol wont hold its value as well but I buy for what I use the vehicle for mainly on a daily basis which is to and from work. And lowering the value of your vehicle !!! who or where did you hear that BS .... It probably wouldn't add value but it certainly wouldn't make any difference on resale in a negative way. Just my opinion but I certainly would have another petrol after having 3 prados one petrol one diesel and now again my 120 in petrol form suits me fine. Yes I might pull into the servo more often but that's you expect when driving a 2t plus petrol 4wd..... And if they don't have a service history I wont touch them either petrol or diesel ......Cheers Steve
              Face lift 150 Prado V6 auto. No mods yet

              Comment


              • #22
                Everything you say Steve I agree with.

                The issue though, is this guys budget. And where he is likely to go.

                I put a new suspension on my one owner Prado when it hit 120k, and it was much better. But to go further than its factory suspension, I'd have to have been with other 4WDs going up exotic tracks or in mud or tricky conditions, such as super fine sand (its out there). hang on - the factory suspension would be just as good in super fine sand! Put a compressor on that gear list then! If this fellow does that sort of thing, then he'll be with others anyway.

                The dollar thing is: if he spends $3k on suspension, that's a real extra cost. With a Hilux, he could cheaply add something to the rear - although lots of them - used - already have that stuff. Trades people like to do a bit of off roading sometimes, and they like the gear almost just to have it!!

                We had a set of apartments built at the end of our street last year - we are near a train station - and our street was chockers with Hilux's - and a few other brands. Many were pristine, and also setup for off roading. But they looked like they never been off road. Maybe a couple of times a year ... and the gear would have been a tax saving thing too ... no Prados though ... the site manager I reckon had the one year old Lexus RX ...

                My point is that if he buys well, and doesn't spend much on the vehicle, it'll cost him less. And cost is an issue with him I reckon.

                If he does a high mileage, and a decent amount of that is off road, a diesel will safe him money. And diesels are likely not be as sensitive to high mileage as a petrol. And the fact is that many Hilux's auto diesels do not have high mileage, and they are very affordable. And they go where Prados go without spending much on them.

                Of course - the driver is the key issue IMO. The key IMO is to have some 4WD training, and to avoid getting stuck if you are by yourself.

                I personally think that second hand Prado diesels are overpriced. I looked at several 100 series GXLs with turbo diesel factory motors (not 3rd party turbos) at under 200k, and those seemed very good vehicles, and I found three that were $30k, advertised, with under 190k mileages, and their age proved they were privately used. Obviously one would have to ensure everything was as promised. But if such a vehicle was in good nick, then if you put an extra 40K on it, the depreciation would not be high IMO. If you paid $30k, and had a fuel pump or injector issue - you'd get a fair bit of that money back when you sold it, just by showing the receipts.

                I also found two ex Red Cross GXL auto turbo diesel Landcruisers with 11,000 km on them - 2009 vehicles. They looked like they were used for emergency work ... cost for each is advertised at $40,000. Plus tax - $1,000 I guess ... A bargain IMO and it would be worth buying one of those - you'd make money out of them IMO.
                MelbournePark
                Member
                Last edited by MelbournePark; 21-02-2014, 05:41 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MelbournePark View Post
                  As far as diesels go - they do save fuel. Work out the cost - what mileage will you be doing?
                  A lot of what you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense, so I won't bother commenting.

                  On the subject of second hand diesel vs petrol Prado's, I did do the sums. Many times over, when I was buying.

                  If you're buying the diesel to save money - you will NEVER get close to even looking like, possibly, maybe, approaching the threshold of breaking even, let alone actually be financially in front, just because you bought a diesel 120.

                  Remember I'm talking used vehicles. 120 diesel's are consistently 10k-25k more than the equivalent petrol. How many miles do you have to drive before you get that back?

                  Factor in the cost of diesel, which nowadays is often the same or more than petrol. So you're relying on miles per gallon to get you in front here.

                  Then factor in the cost of servicing. Diesels are consistently more per service than petrol.

                  Throw in the need for new injectors just once, on top of all that and you're busted.

                  As I said, I did the sums over and over. I also went through the numbers with a mate that was thinking of chopping in his 90 for a 120. No matter how we crunched it, the results were the same - the likelihood of saving money by buying a second hand diesel Prado is extremely remote.

                  I believe the magic figure is something in the realm of 200,000kms, best case scenario, before any "savings" were realised.

                  You can disagree with all of that if you like, but its only simple mathematics.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Beach has it. You don't buy a diesel, well a modern diesel to save $. Higher purchase cost, higher maintenance cost especially factoring in injectors every 130,000 km or so and similar fuel price make it unlikely that you will break even. Selling the diesel will probably get you more $ than an equivalent petrol but whether you are in front by then is debatable. The Toyota V6 is a strong unit and is not going to fall over in 200,000 km or less. I buy and drive diesels, why? Because I am a torque junkie. I prefer the drive.
                    My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mjrandom View Post
                      Beach has it. You don't buy a diesel, well a modern diesel to save $. Higher purchase cost, higher maintenance cost especially factoring in injectors every 130,000 km or so and similar fuel price make it unlikely that you will break even. Selling the diesel will probably get you more $ than an equivalent petrol but whether you are in front by then is debatable. The Toyota V6 is a strong unit and is not going to fall over in 200,000 km or less. I buy and drive diesels, why? Because I am a torque junkie. I prefer the drive.
                      I guess you should be saying low down torque ... as the petrol Prado motor has almost as much torque as the diesel, but it comes in at much higher revs ...

                      But the facts are that now almost 2/3rds of new car sales in Europe are diesel ... and most Euro cars are light cars. Heavier vehicles are rarely petrol in Europe ... with a heavy 4WD, the fuel efficiency of diesel makes it much more economical to use diesel, despite your mentioned oil issues.


                      And diesel is often as expensive as petrol 95 RON.

                      For instance: 95 Ron ; Diesel ; LPG

                      Austria € 1,360 € 1,330 € 0,799
                      Belarus € 0,950 € 0,960 € 0,540
                      Belgium € 1,614 € 1,452 € 0,652
                      Czech Rep € 1,325 € 1,336 € 0,668

                      http://fuel-prices-europe.info/

                      Typically petrol costs !0% more in Europe though, but the difference is not large, and often, its cheaper than diesel. Still ... 98 RON costs more again ... but often standard Petrol is 97 RON and often 98 Ron. Euros buy diesel because it has much better economy. And that is also why trucks use diesel - even in Australia. It's more efficient, from a cost perspective.

                      As far as engine costs go ... the Prado diesel costs an extra $1,000.

                      I think Australians buy the petrol because its smoother, mostly quieter, and mostly because it out accelerates diesel around town ... I reckon if Toyota put in a diesel with BMW performance (ie 3 litre starts at 190 kW & 560 Nm) Aussies would buy the diesel ...

                      Just IMO of course ...

                      For me, the worry of diesel is the oil contamination from distillate invasion via the combustion cylinders lubrication system ... hence the need to change the oil more frequently.
                      MelbournePark
                      Member
                      Last edited by MelbournePark; 23-02-2014, 10:22 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Your quoted figures have no relevance in Australia.

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                        • #27
                          Fuel consumption and fuel cost are just one part of the total cost of owning any car. Initial purchase price, maintenance costs, registration etc etc. not sure where you are getting your pricing but when I bought the 120 and again with the 150 the petrol could be had for some serious discounts. in some countries the on road cost of diesels is far lower than an equivalent petrol.

                          I stand by my previous comment.
                          My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Even if you do get a diesel, new or used, for $1000 more than a petrol, (highly unlikely) you're still paying the same or more for fuel, the servicing costs are more and you will be up for a set of injectors at least once.

                            The idea that a diesel Prado is a more economical purchase than a petrol, is not supported by the actual running costs.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Interesting discussion - thanks for all the comments, I just got back on here after some intense weeks at work.

                              I'm still looking for a decent 120 V6 Petrol, so if you guys are aware of any good ones please give me a shout. The ones on carsales / gumtree are ridiculously overpriced at the moment (unfortunately missed out on a Toyota serviced 2009 for under $30k recently).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                For what it's worth I have a 90 series petrol with 415000 trouble free kms and a 120 D4D with 185000kms. The D4D maintenance costs have been significant. Despite the D4D performing perfectly on separate trips to WA and NT from here in SEQLD through remote parts of the country, I think if I purchase another Prado it will be petrol. Oh, the 90 petrol has also done a couple of trips to NT towing 4.75m boat and has also been across the Simpson. They have both been good but the maintenance cost on one is hard to swallow.

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