Bilstein struts and shocks: Lengths and Valving

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey all,

For anyone wanting to see photos of the snapped front Bilstein struts that MLC experienced, see here from post #774;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nde-MLC/page65

I believe these were 712 struts from Autocraft?

Best

Mark

[ejukated Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ejukated]

I'm currently running 150 strut and springs on my 120 with Steel ARB bar, winch and dual batt. For my liking it feels great on the road, much better than stock, offroad as good as stock, if not better on dirt. Needs more height tho so have Bilsteins and Kings Springs waiting to go on.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

I believe these were 712 struts from Autocraft?

Bet on it. I had mine installed at the same place: Total Traction Tyres. Agent for AutoCraft.

But these would be the same A712 supplied by Sydney Suspension wouldn't they? Didn't we decide AutoCraft was fibbing about having his own valving?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Bet on it. I had mine installed at the same place: Total Traction Tyres. Agent for AutoCraft.

But these would be the same A712 supplied by Sydney Suspension wouldn't they? Didn't we decide AutoCraft was fibbing about having his own valving?

Hey,

Yep, they would have been trucked straight from Sydney, with a detour to a shelf at Autocraft.

Have a read of post #30 above, 712 = 480, same lengths, same valving. The A480 was developed originally by Bilstein engineers in Germany, and was valved to suit OEM coils. The 712 is the same strut as 480, but with a different part number.

As most after market coils are very close to OEM spring rates (eg. Dobinson are 586lb/in compared to 605lb/in OEM), then there really isn't any surprise that there has been no change in valving for the 712 for Australian Prados.

Now compare the 120 strut valving between Sydney and Melbourne, 2365N:2135N compared to 2400N:2300N, very, very close.

Now ask yourself if two different importers who have over 60 years of valving experience between them use almost identical strut valving for the 120 Prado, and the German engineers at Bilstein use the same valving, why then would somebody think they have some kind of special "Oz" spec valving which is different and/or better than the massive amount of experience between Bilstein Germany, Sydney Bilstein and Quadrant???

I have seen claims from Autocraft for special "Oz" spec valving on numerous forums for numerous vehicles (both struts and shocks), and quite simply it is a sales pitch and nothing more.

As stated above, Sydney Bilstein have stated that nobody has ever done custom valving on their 712 struts.

If Autocraft want to claim they are doing custom valving on Bilsteins, then I'm happy to post up their so called custom "Oz" spec 712 valving right here in this thread. Real numbers, not just some rubbish claim, or the typical response from Autocraft on various forum threads on this subject, "oh yeah I'll just hand over all of my special valving data". I know he has been banned from PP and many other forums, but I'm still happy to post the data through a third party.

Provide a column of data, Force vs velocity, otherwise I'm calling it for the bottle of snake oil that it really is.

Every other shock manufacturer in the business of selling suspension will in the end provide you with valving data if you push hard enough to get it. Valving data is in my opinion no more special than providing closed-open lengths.

Quadrant have very generously provided valving data for every strut and shock I asked about, and were extremely helpful.

I decided a long time ago that Autocraft was fibbing about having his own valving.

Best

Mark

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Sounds fair Whitey. I think it is "put up or shut up" time for Autocraft.

If we disassemble the strut (not paying to rebuild it) would the valve pack be identifiable compared to the 'standard' (lol) A712??

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Sounds fair Whitey. I think it is "put up or shut up" time for Autocraft.

If we disassemble the strut (not paying to rebuild it) would the valve pack be identifiable compared to the 'standard' (lol) A712??

Hey,

Indeed, it is way past "put up or shut up" time. People are parting with their hard earned money for so called custom valved Bilstein struts and shocks.

Why are people not entitled to know what they are paying for? Every other major manufacturer will tell you about what you are purchasing. You can even speak with their engineers for very detailed information.

I'm sure an experienced valving engineer could easily identify the valving stack.

Best

Mark

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey all,

I've updated the table for rear shocks to include B46-1478LT. This shock has a different part number to the standard length S version;

B46-1478S 380-591mm 3865N:540N 24-014786

B46-1478LT 380-625mm 4000N:900N 24-237024

The LT version is the longest rear Bilstein shock that will fit the Prado. It also has distinctly higher compression valving than the S version, suggesting it is more appropriate for a softer coil.

Many thanks to Jason for clarifying everything about the LT version of this shock!

Best

Mark

[drwormy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drwormy]

I have reformatted and edited this information to be specific to an FJ cruiser. The post is over at FJCC:

http://www.fjcc.com.au/f36/bilstein-...an-worms-7812/

[Guest Close Guest]

Great work to the both of you.

[jjgsxr1000 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jjgsxr1000]

You could be right, but as I remember it, Darren said he bought directly from Blistein in Germany, not from local distributors. Batches of 50 to get his own part numbers.

Maybe these images with part details would help, can you check?

These are from 2008. The distribution may have changed since then.

BE5 is Aus Bilstein Sydney part number.
They never had these designations from Germany.
These are Aus Shocks.

Regards, Jason.

[jjgsxr1000 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jjgsxr1000]

Hey all,

I've updated the table for rear shocks to include B46-1478LT. This shock has a different part number to the standard length S version;

B46-1478S 380-591mm 3865N:540N 24-014786

B46-1478LT 380-625mm 4000N:900N 24-237024

The LT version is the longest rear Bilstein shock that will fit the Prado. It also has distinctly higher compression valving than the S version, suggesting it is more appropriate for a softer coil.

Many thanks to Jason for clarifying everything about the LT version of this shock!

Best

Mark

So happy i could prove the existence of this "Unicorn" Mark :-)

Regards, Jason.

[Guest Close Guest]

A pair of unicorns appeared the other week.

[Jason_4WDSpecialists Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Jason_4WDSpecialists]

A pair of unicorns appeared the other week.

I hope you like them sir.

[Guest Close Guest]

I'm sure I will once I hook it up to the grand chariot.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey all,

For those who are interested in the top of the range monotube bypass adjustable Bilstein, this is even better than the 1478LT unicorn!!!



Best

Mark