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OEM coil spring rates for Toyota 4wd vehicles

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  • #16
    Help please Mark

    Originally posted by Whitey View Post
    Hey all,

    I updated the tables again today after confirming the 2016 2.8 diesel front coils are nearly identical to the pre face lift 150 series front coils.

    So the 150 has preserved the high rebound/high coil rate setup on the IFS, at least for the diesel.

    Best

    Mark
    Mark
    I read your post re Bilstein’s with great interest. It goes a long way to helping me resolve problems that I have with the rear suspension in my 2007 Prado. On extreme articulation I hear a clunk from the rear. The rear suspension feels under dampened as it wallows when full extension is required. A recent Moreton Island trip highlighted this where the track was scalloped out from one side to the other. It is not related to the diff locks as it happens when diff locks are off or on. I have checked all suspension bolts for looseness and all bushes for wear and all good. I assume this clunk is caused by the rear shocks being over extended and topping out. The shocks are not leaking.
    Vehicle specifics:- 1KD FTV 16v D4D common rail diesel auto trans and 265 70 17 tyres and ARB difflocks front and rear. It is fitted with a 40mm lift using BE5-712 and BES-713 Bilstein shocks and King springs that have a 30% greater load rating than standard Toyota springs. The rear sway bar link pins have been lengthened by 30mm. TJM aluminium bull bar and TJM under body protection plates. No winch and no intention to fit one. The 40mm lift has not sagged.
    Note re longer link pins. When the suspension is raised, even by only 40mm, the rear link pins become misaligned in their top rubber mountings. Extension of the link pin is necessary to avoid premature wear of the rubber bushes especially if touring off road. The 30mm extension corrects the alignment of a 40 mm lift and also allows a greater suspension drop/extension before the swaybar limits travel.
    My thoughts on how to rectify these problems
    Initially I thought retain the 30mm extended sway bar links to give better articulation of the sway bar and fit longer travel 24-217897 rear Bilstein shocks. The downside is this may cause the coil springs to dislodge on their seats or give rise to some new problems as the tail shaft, universal joints, panhard rod and the 4 suspension links for example could be taken beyond their articulation capacity. In the interests of safety and reliability a 5mm reduction in the length of the link pins could be a wise comprise.
    I do not have the technical knowledge or experience to know if the rebound and compression characteristics of this particular shock suits the King springs currently fitted.
    As you said the rebound/compression of the BE5-712 Bilsteins currently fitted to the front compares closely to the 24-238762 but the 24-238762 has longer travel. I lifted the suspension because the front of a 120 series Prado has poor ground clearance and it is still not flash. If you can advise there are benefits with regard to ride and clearance to be gained by fitting 24-238762 Bilsteins then I will fit them.
    I am not about to go do extreme off road and most importantly I do not want my Prado modified to the max thereby sacrificing reliability.
    I welcome your thoughts and input.
    Kitbags
    2007 120 GX, automatic, diesel, 2in lift Bilsteins King springs, rear swaybar extended link pins, ARB lockers, TJM bull bar and bash plate, dual AGM batteries, Provent 200, Donaldson prefilter, Uniden UHF radio, IPF driving lights, Koita fog lights, roofrack

    Comment


    • #17
      Hey,

      The biggest culprit in your problems is the short stroke on the 713 rear shock. The 713 is useless in lifted geometry, and you prolly only have around 50mm of droop, so you will be topping them out quite regularly.

      As you're in Brisbane, give John at Zordos suspension a call, and get either the 24-217897, or the 1478LT, he has both. Either of these will fix all of your rear shock issues.

      No need to shorten your swaybar links, 30mm extension compared to OEM is fine.

      Regarding your King coils, yes they are load rated considerably higher than the OEM coils. However, the "wallowing" you describe is likely due to vehicle pitch, caused by a mismatch in front:rear suspension frequency ratio. Without knowing the exact coils you're running, I'm guessing 660lb/in front, 260lb/in rear. You will never get the frequency ratio better than 1:1 with 660/260 coils. 586/280 gets it lower than 1:1 and minimises vehicle pitch, however, load up the rear and it can go back over 1:1.

      For minimising vehicle pitch you need a quite stiff rear coil, and airbags will also help stop the wallowing.

      I run a 430mm free height 280lb/in rear coil with 586lb/in front coils in my 120. I want the tallest stiffest linear coil possible for the rear, and Dobinsons are the only ones who make it at the moment, C59-487. You might be satisfied just with airbags for your King coils.

      There's no need to pull out your front 712, just space it down by round 10mm to get maximum articulation.

      Give John a call, he'll have excellent advice for you!

      Best

      Mark
      2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hey again,

        I just checked the free height of linear rear King coils, I'm guessing you have a 390mm 260lb/in KTRR-102.

        If you have a look at the coil bucket separation vs coil free height here;

        http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ado-120-series

        ...then you'll see that the KTRR-102 (also the HD Version) will definitely be a bit short for the 24-217897 and the 1478LT.

        So you should definitely speak with John about a taller coil, he'll likely suggest a 327 Dobinson, and perhaps some airbags.

        Best

        Mark
        2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Hey all,

          Another big update today after Steve Dorman at King Springs has measured another 14 coils for me. Massive thank you to Steve for his enthusiastic efforts in helping create what is becoming a very comprehensive database for Toyotas. I have not seen another database like this on the internet!

          As always, there is still more measurements to come in the future, the new Fortuner, a 76 series Cruiser, and our old friend the 95 series Prado.

          Some points of interest from the most recent measurements: i) The OEM coil rates for the 200 series are quite soft, softer than a Prado, ii) the petrol 150 GXL coils are considerably less stiff than the diesel versions, 720/730lb/in compared to 780lb/in, iii) the pre 2015 petrol Hilux has the softest OEM coils I've seen on the IFS at 510lb/in, and iv) the latest 2.8 Hilux has a new front coil at 650lb/in.

          More updates to come in the future!

          Best

          Mark
          2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Mark
            Any chance you can upload the file to a file sharing site? The initial links dont work anymore.
            Bazzle

            Comment


            • #21
              Hey Bazzle,

              I've got 20-30 suspension threads to fix, and it's not a priority right now to fix them!

              Shoot me an email at [email protected], and I'll send you the original jpg's.

              ...they don't have the KDSS oem coils if that's what you're chasing!?

              Best

              Mark
              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Thanks for the offer. Ill pm now. Bazzle

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hi guys, I don't think the the table in post #1 is still working. All I see is a blank space.

                  It would be nice if this resource can be restored.

                  cheers

                  Comment

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