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  • Petrol and Diesel old issue BUT

    Im pretty new to Prado point and have this thought. I have read many reports on diesel v petrol and yes petrol is way more efficient.

    But and here's the big one!

    IF SO many people are having engine troubles and DPF regen issues AND so many cars are in the city where this is worse WHY on earth aren't more petrol Prado's sold.

    I can understand country user and or lots of towing but if you tow once a year and occasionally go out of the city doing sub 20k, it doesn't make sense after your read the diesel complaints (and there is heaps).

    I had a diesel with lots of regen problems and turbo etc etc (ended up selling and bought a kluger). The engine is so great and powerful plus after 25k of not resetting the clock im averaging 11.3l/100. I have gone down to 9 after refill on highway and up to 20 climbing hills in Sydney with stop star traffic when on holidays (average city is about 15).

    So for most of us doesn't the petrol make sense? Please let me know as im struggling to choose petrol v diesel.

    (ps resale with petrol doesn't seem to be too bad after looking at this for a few weeks). Plus if diesel is being so rubbished wont the price fall as diesel becomes less reliable in the Aussie conscience.

  • #2
    My two cents worth, I wouldn't have another petrol 4wd if you gave it to me for free. I had a petrol 80 series which was a brilliant vehicle however at around 21 L/100km, it wasn't very economical to run. Covert it to LPG you say. I did that, big mistake. I could never get 300km out of 90L of LPG and the petrol economy got worse after the conversion. I had it dyno tuned at various places, could not improve it. In fact, the economy continued to deteriorate and thought I thought its time for an upgrade and bought a new 2014 GXL 3.0L D4D and I couldn't be happier. Love the range I get both city and hwy.
    My sister bought a 04 Prado (petrol) new. I remember the petrol and diesel were the same price at the time (IRC the only 4WD on the market where this was the case) and I told her to buy a diesel. She didn't listen and regretted it. Drank like a fish and even though it had never ever been offroad and had low kms, got bugger all for it compared to diesels being sold at the time. Also took ages to get a bite on Carsales.
    I also have two mates with Jeeps (a Wrangler and a Grand Cherokee) both petrols and they also drink like fish nd they both regret buying petrols.
    Anyway, each to their own.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yep good points, but isnt the v6 about 14 combined? Not too bad.... Your diesel 2013 do you mainly do country kms and any issue with regen DPF as many owners claim in the 2.8 (i think 2.8 and older 3L all have regen DPF). Again couldnt agree more if you tow and do lots of km's... thanks

      PS my wife says to go diesel however she'll be the first to say something if we get crawl home from finicky diesel (new 2.8). If i get a new diesel ill definetley get the factory warranty extension.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nair View Post
        Yep good points, but isnt the v6 about 14 combined? Not too bad.... Your diesel 2013 do you mainly do country kms and any issue with regen DPF as many owners claim in the 2.8 (i think 2.8 and older 3L all have regen DPF). Again couldnt agree more if you tow and do lots of km's... thanks

        PS my wife says to go diesel however she'll be the first to say something if we get crawl home from finicky diesel (new 2.8). If i get a new diesel ill definetley get the factory warranty extension.
        Its a Nov 2014 but I took delivery on the 31/12/14. I have done just over 21,000km so its a baby. My km have mainly been city with about a dozen hwy camping trips. No issues what so ever.

        Comment


        • #5
          No problems with my 2.8 in terms of the DPF or anything else (although hard to tell over the long term). I don't really like the complexity of the diesel but at least is it built by Toyota (i.e. reliability is a key objective) and is a high volume unit. I get about 9 l/100 in town and down to 8 on longer runs (on the computer). Never seen less than 8 or more than 10.5 from any 'reset' of the average. However I don't tow (yet) and no heavy accessories. I plan to do a brim to brim fuel test soon.
          I prefer the sportiness of a V6 (owned Kluger and tested a V6 Prado) in some situations but the 2.8 runs really well on long distance cruising and also when off-road. Also suspect it would tow medium loads really well. Obviously a Toyota V6 diesel with about 175kw would be the best of both worlds and might be the reason for some sales lost to LR/Jeep etc.

          Comment


          • #6
            Great thanks for the feedback.

            Comment


            • #7
              No correct answer to this one

              I would not have another common rail diesel engine if you paid me. My first ownership of a CRD vehicle was a nightmare of engine problems that the dealer never fully resolved. That was the first and last diesel I will ever own.

              My petrol Prado usually gets over 1000km's a tank, do I wish it was more, absolutely. But not due to cost, only that I am a lazy and do not like filling up!

              Comment


              • #8
                I decided on a petrol Kakadu because of what i read about all the issues the diesel has had. Considering the FJ Cruiser has the same engine and it has its own cult following buying a petrol 4wd is not a far out there thought. The choice of model variant and engine was based solely on comfort.

                With the legislative requirements pushing diesels to become cleaner and more efficient it is turning diesels into nice performing engines. However, with the other half owning an offending VW diesel i know that required complexity is becoming increasingly expensive to engineer and maintain. I have gone through a couple of brand new mine spec diesel Hilux dual cabs for the last 7 years and the economy was around the 12L/100. I was impressed with the performance of the newer diesels considering what i remember of the woeful performance of a 1990's diesel Hilux. Just like there are little similarities of the performance and economy of 1990's diesel compared to a 2010's diesel, there are little similarities between a 1990's petrol and a 2010's petrol, or by comparing a 1990's petrol and a 2010's diesels and vice versa.

                To be honest the biggest part of my decision was that i was sick of driving a vehicle that drove and sounds like a work car. I also wasn't planning on towing anything and if i did, it is not like i would be towing 100% of the time. I live in the city and it will be a daily commute most of the time. The most the car would do off road is dirt roads, tracks or beach driving. I don't plan to take a modern, expensive, 4x4 anywhere where it could be damaged if i cannot help it. If i wanted to get my kicks from hardcore 4wd'ing then it wouldn't be in a late model petrol Kakadu! I also like the look of the standard wagon and don't plan on having a bar fitted to the front. I remove the roof basket, awning, roof rack, fridge and drawers when not in use and am seriously considering whether to keep HT tyres over AT tyres when i have to replace them in a few months.

                If i do long freeway runs my petrol will get me 10 to 12L/100 for a tank. If i am only doing short local runs, start/stopping in hilly terrain it will end up in the 14'sL/100. I have put one tank of standard unleaded in and got around 16L for that tank. I have an OBD module plugged into the OBD port and i do see my peak timing advance slowly rising as i am using premium fuels and my economy is noticeably worse on standard unleaded. I can also see that at idle with the aircon on, it chews around 2.4L/h whereas it if aircon is turned off it chews 1.5L per hour. The petrol is a 4L engine. Open the throttle body and it will do what any 4L engine will do, pump twice the amount of air and consume twice the amount of fuel that a 2L engine will! Having said that, i remember getting around 12L/100 out of my 1997 2.5L Subaru Liberty so i am impressed with the 4L engine in a 2.3t car.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The old debate Diesel or petrol, Toyota or Nissan, ute or wagon, just buy the one you are happy with just use it and at resale time it doesn't matter as you do your money with any car.
                  For me I have had 3 Prados 1 V6 and 2 diesels including my current3.0 lt.love the D4D although I am lucky as mind spends most days living in the garage only coming out for the adventure trips and the odd Sunday drive. I'm get around for commuting in a Suzuki Swift and BMW 650 GS.
                  As to the modern diesel we also have the Mazda CX 5 diesel had it since new in 2012 and car is now nudging 150000km, just did a qick 300 km round trip this arvo to Tweed South and it is such a great drive, the torque and power makes it so much more pleasant over the equivalent petrol motors . Has been ultra reliable and will be replaced with a new model in June 2017 (hopefully when the new model is released).
                  For me it diesel all the way.
                  New 2015 150s GX 5 seater with floor mats, towbar and a big wish list
                  Previously a 2004 120s 1KZ GX silver manual with stuff
                  before that a 1996 RV6 90S with lots of gear

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Maybe the Govt will decide for us in the future.
                    http://www.carsales.com.au/editorial...by-2025-105008

                    Yet then I read this,
                    http://www.carsales.com.au/editorial...-diesel-104990
                    rags
                    Advanced Member
                    Last edited by rags; 09-12-2016, 10:02 PM.
                    New 2015 150s GX 5 seater with floor mats, towbar and a big wish list
                    Previously a 2004 120s 1KZ GX silver manual with stuff
                    before that a 1996 RV6 90S with lots of gear

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Petrol v Diesel.

                      Initially I was looking for a Medium second hand 4WD wagon no set Marque or combination, Drove Patrol, Grand Vitara, Pajero, Landcruisers series 70-80-95-100-120-150, FJ cruiser (personal favourite) narrowed down to 120 Prado.
                      I had a budget, will do most mechanical work on my car, did a fair bit of research, drove around a dozen 120 Prados 2 diesels 10ish petrol's, 1 diesel 150 Prado, read a lot on this forum.
                      Basically I believe if you buy a Prado from new and it is your thing get a Diesel Auto, they hold their resale, very reliable and you have complete control over all maintenance I do not like the 6 spd auto though.
                      After driving Diesels and petrol's, the petrol auto delivery is seamless, instant power across the rev range this is my thing, post 2005 V6 reliability excellent, 5 spd auto reliability excellent, maintenance is cheap if you do the bulk of it, as is really a simple "modern" motor with lots of history of high total mileage doing just routine log book maintenance, used a lot in the USA (no rubber belts driving cams etc nonsense), sure it uses some fuel but you claw that back in total cost per km. (10k oil changes, um sparkplugs every 100k, diff and auto service every 50k maybe a starter motor and alternator at some point, vs diesel 5k oil changes if you are the careful type check oil pick up at same time-wise, cam belt, injectors-injector inspection by specialist if you are careful type, fuel filters after market inline filter (shudder one tank of bad fuel), diff and auto service every 50k maybe a starter motor, alternator, turbo reconditioning at some point).
                      So in my opinion a second hand good condition V6 2005+ auto 120 Prado is a great, safe (get 6 airbags and the electronics that go with it, ATRAC is awesome BTW), reliable cost efficient medium 4WD with 8 seats... that a person with some knack can service the diesel does not quite offer that IMHO.
                      If I was going to buy a diesel I would have to say a 3.2 Pajero as even with noise/vibration, in auto kind of matches the car, however the nail in the coffin for me was just a little to small on the inside and not a huge fuel tank compared to a Prado 120 which has a monster tank at 180l in any standard 4WD.
                      So hey either/or I still love mine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Diesels are the popular choice because the general car-buying public are uninformed sheep and believe all the hype that diesel's are "unbreakable". Ask them what compression-ignition is and they'll probably scratch their head. Everyone, including manufacturers, concentrates on fuel economy but has anyone tried to kill a toyota petrol lately? Yes, of course they are thirstier than their diesel brother, but they are truly tough engines. The modern diesel has too many weak links and it's hands are tied far too much by emissions hardware and highly-strung injection systems with seriously expensive components. If one bad tank of fuel makes it through to your injectors, your wallet is going to be significantly lighter. Seriously, the modern diesel is trying too hard to be like a petrol. Just look at TV ads, they boast about kilowatts not newton-metres. You want torque with a diesel, not horsepower. The whole point of a diesel is to too haul loads using it's greater torque and to be an efficient, robust and long-lasting engine. Modern CRD engines are not robust (bulletproof) anymore. They are fragile, highly precise, finicky things. Unless you are towing a load regularly or doing high Km's, a diesel is the wrong choice and you are just killing it slowly. The amount of brand new, usually black, diesel prado's you see doing the school run is laughable. I love diesel engines, but I love real dinosaur diesels with mechanical injection, no electrikery controlling anything. The old adage about a true 4WD being diesel only is BS too. Look at the 40 series Landcruiser, they were all petrol until the early 70s, and who is going to tell you that one of those is not a "real" 4wd?! I'll take a slow, old, under-stressed, tractor-sounding diesel all day everyday. In the real-world to keep up with traffic, give me a petrol prado.
                        1979 BJ40
                        1992 FZJ80R
                        1997 HDJ80R
                        2005 GRJ120R

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The only problem going new petrol 4wd is your choice is somewhat limited. Besides a 200series, 150 series, HiLux and Patrol being available in petrol, you will struggle to get anything other than a diesel. All the dual cab Utes are diesel, the ute based wagons are diesel. The petrol vehicles mention are superb vehicles but the Diesel where available are equally so.
                          New 2015 150s GX 5 seater with floor mats, towbar and a big wish list
                          Previously a 2004 120s 1KZ GX silver manual with stuff
                          before that a 1996 RV6 90S with lots of gear

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I totally agree with Falco.
                            I was talking with a bloke who runs an earth-moving business, about my reasoning to sell my D4D and get the V6, when he remarked that he had purchased a V6 Hilux for the same reasons. He also went on to say that "it's not the cost of fuel that will send you broke - it's the cost of repairs".
                            At the moment I'm waiting to have my vehicle repaired after having a turbo fail due to thermal shock and consequently cause the motor to bearings to fail. Repair cost over $20K.
                            I don't read about V6 owners having that sort of grief

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Clancy View Post
                              I totally agree with Falco.
                              I was talking with a bloke who runs an earth-moving business, about my reasoning to sell my D4D and get the V6, when he remarked that he had purchased a V6 Hilux for the same reasons. He also went on to say that "it's not the cost of fuel that will send you broke - it's the cost of repairs".
                              At the moment I'm waiting to have my vehicle repaired after having a turbo fail due to thermal shock and consequently cause the motor to bearings to fail. Repair cost over $20K.
                              I don't read about V6 owners having that sort of grief
                              Take some reasonable precautions with the diesel and have the best of both worlds

                              Comment

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