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  • #16
    Originally posted by photoprado View Post
    Doing a kit, front and rear?
    Hey!

    Yeah I'll offer all three combinations, front struts by themselves, rears by themselves or the whole front/rear kit and kaboodle!

    Best

    Mark
    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Cool.

      Oh yea, any chance of a shortened closed length 370mm in the rear yet?
      2008 D4D M6 GXL [MT ATZ-P3][Whitey's Ironman 45710FE/45682FE+KTFR101H/Dob487][extended Roadsafe links][Polyairs][DBA T3/T2][amts diffdrop & recovery points][Tin175's stone guards][Bushskins BashPlate][ARB Sahara][IPF 900s][Snorkel][WindCheetah][MaxTrax][IC-440][Parrot Asteroid][ARB Fridge][Lifestyle 2nd Row Fridge Mount][ARB Compressor][Thumper][SandGrabbers][Cargo Barrier][Tigerz Awning][MCC Rear Bar]

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by photoprado View Post
        Cool.

        Oh yea, any chance of a shortened closed length 370mm in the rear yet?
        Hey,

        Still working on a piggyback, have found a good tig welder!

        Best

        Mark
        2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

        Comment


        • #19
          I'm keen as well. I assume the rear will be shocks and springs?
          [B]Steve[/B]

          2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Whitey View Post
            Hey Samo,

            If you can hang on for a little while, I'll have the front struts sorted soon. I'll then offer a group buy to PP members for custom valved Ironman Pros for the Prado!

            Best

            Mark
            I'd be keen on that too!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by krypto View Post
              I'm keen as well. I assume the rear will be shocks and springs?
              Hey Steve,

              Yep I'll offer rear coils, it'll depend what lift you want to get.

              I'll put you on the list!

              Best

              Mark
              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Rdae1981 View Post
                I'd be keen on that too!!!
                Rdae,

                I'll put you on the list!

                Best

                Mark
                2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Mark. Also very interested in this. What are the pluses and minuses of hydraulic v. gas shocks? I thought that the latter were almost universal these days especially in terms of initial impact on ride. Whose springs do you propose to use? Neil
                  404pug
                  Avid PP Poster!
                  Last edited by 404pug; 14-03-2017, 10:29 AM. Reason: update

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 404pug View Post
                    Mark. Also very interested in this. What are the pluses and minuses of hydraulic v. gas shocks? I thought that the latter were almost universal these days especially in terms of initial impact on ride. Whose springs do you propose to use? Neil
                    Hey pug,

                    Hydraulic shocks have earned their reputation in Australia based on how they perform on corrugations. They are very fade resistant shocks as they can hold more oil. More oil means more heat exchange, and shocks can run cooler.

                    The Ironman twin tube hydraulics run a 45mm bore, similar size to the 46mm bore in a 2” monotube. However the outer diameter of the Ironman is 70mm meaning it holds a lot more oil in the twin tube overflow chamber, plus there is no gas chamber in a hydraulic, more oil again in the middle bore. There is around twice the oil in an Ironman Pro. The oil in the Ironmans is also a heavy duty service oil, which can takes very high operating temperatures.

                    Ironmans run a larger shaft diameter of 20mm, typical 2” monotube runs a 14mm shaft, which limits the valving to around 4000N. The larger diameter shaft on the Ironman is also far better for the Prado, particularly the rear where there is a lot of side load on the shafts.

                    Ironman hydraulics have the advantage over all other hydraulics, including Koni and Tough Dog, as they are both rebuildable and come in long travel. Koni are short travel, no good in lifted geometry. Tough Dogs are not rebuildable. If something goes wrong in your Ironman, you can service it easily by yourself at home. Damaged gas shocks will require a costly visit to a specialist with a gas recharging rig.

                    The nitrogen impregnated foamcell in the Ironmans acts in a similar manner to the floating piston in a monotube, in that there is always pressure on the oil to prevent cavitation. The Ironmans also run cooler than a traditional hydraulic because of this, as in a traditional hydraulic like a Koni there is only air above the oil.

                    The struts and shocks I will be supplying on the group buy are also uniquely valved. I will be putting both the dyno runs up on the thread when I start it. These will have the highest low velocity critical damping ever seen on a Prado.

                    You can read all about the critical damping here;

                    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...uts-and-shocks

                    The advantage of having high critically damped struts and shocks is in controlling vehicle kinematics such as pitch, body roll etc. The rears will be around 90%, and are the most important in terms of controlling the Prado. Off road in slow speed driving, eg., rutted out sand tracks, getting through rocky terrain etc., you will really notice how nicely the suspension will cycle through the terrain with a minimum of sprung mass body movement.

                    The front struts will be the first of their kind, and will have knee speeds shortened to 50-60mm/s, to give around 100mm/s at the wheel position, you can read about how the motion ratio on the IFS scales the front valving here;

                    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...on-IFS-valving

                    To get the IFS kinematically active means shortening those knee speeds to around 100mm/s at the wheel position, and there is no off the shelf strut that does this. The Ironman struts really will be the first.

                    The front Ironman Pro struts also come with a height adjustable threaded body, something that is more expensive to get in a monotube.

                    To offer a final perspective, the Ironmans are a heavy duty service item, this is the same shock geometry that gets used in trucks and buses. They are a seriously beefy bit of gear which have the unique advantage that they can be worked on at home. Gas monotubes will always be susceptible to knocking the floating piston and seizing it in place, seen plenty. Many monotube gas chambers are also too short in length, making knocking far easier. For a monotube it is preferable to get that floating piston into a reservoir where it can’t be knocked, but then you have hose issues. The best monotube in my opinion is a proper cross-flow piggyback, where oil gets properly exchanged between the piggyback and the main shock body by a fixed welded pipe, no hose. Piggyback geometry is also preferable on the Prado rear. I am working on a custom 60mm monotube piggyback but it is a much longer term project!

                    I’m not into the whole twin-tube vs monotube argument, I enjoy the best of both. I don’t like small bore 35mm twin tubes because they fade too easily, but I also don’t like 46mm monotubes in the Prado rear because of the 14mm shafts and small gas chambers. You can live with both, but I prefer the best of both!

                    Coils for the group buy will be Kings.

                    Best

                    Mark
                    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Aww man. Just when I thought I had what suspension I was going to put in sorted you go and throw this in the mix. Was looking at the Bilstein/dobinson package after reading a plethora of posts in here, but now Quadrant has closed down ....... ???

                      Car is used as a daily driver (no load in rear) but when we go away it is loaded up for touring. 3 Teenage kids, luggage, fridge and a 1.5t Camper on the back. Normal fruit up front, Bar, dual battery and soon to be winch (Please Santa?). Currently have polyairs in the rear but the suspension definitely needs work over standard when loaded up for touring. Is there a similar spring to the C327 (what I was looking at) available in Kings (KTPR-102?) and still have the poly airs to assist when loaded.

                      Keen to be involved in a group buy also.

                      Cheers,
                      Barrie.
                      bazzang
                      Junior Member
                      Last edited by bazzang; 14-03-2017, 03:08 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks,Mark. I have been doing my head in reading all those threads! I think I follow them! My 150 GX is set up very similarly to bazzang above and was zeroing in on a similar combination to him so this all sounds good. The only question is around ride quality with your proposed setup [and I know the issues around ride/handling] Neil

                        Update. Mark I am sure you have seen these but for the rest of us they make intersting reading. They sure sound like a good bit of gear. They and other bits I have read seem to answer my question re. ride quality unladen- not harsh at all.

                        http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/we-tes...hock-absorber/

                        http://www.ironman4x4.com/news/foam-cell-pro-testing
                        404pug
                        Avid PP Poster!
                        Last edited by 404pug; 14-03-2017, 03:36 PM. Reason: more info.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          While we're at it, what is the weight of the ironmen?
                          2008 D4D M6 GXL [MT ATZ-P3][Whitey's Ironman 45710FE/45682FE+KTFR101H/Dob487][extended Roadsafe links][Polyairs][DBA T3/T2][amts diffdrop & recovery points][Tin175's stone guards][Bushskins BashPlate][ARB Sahara][IPF 900s][Snorkel][WindCheetah][MaxTrax][IC-440][Parrot Asteroid][ARB Fridge][Lifestyle 2nd Row Fridge Mount][ARB Compressor][Thumper][SandGrabbers][Cargo Barrier][Tigerz Awning][MCC Rear Bar]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by bazzang View Post
                            Aww man. Just when I thought I had what suspension I was going to put in sorted you go and throw this in the mix. Was looking at the Bilstein/dobinson package after reading a plethora of posts in here, but now Quadrant has closed down ....... ???

                            Car is used as a daily driver (no load in rear) but when we go away it is loaded up for touring. 3 Teenage kids, luggage, fridge and a 1.5t Camper on the back. Normal fruit up front, Bar, dual battery and soon to be winch (Please Santa?). Currently have polyairs in the rear but the suspension definitely needs work over standard when loaded up for touring. Is there a similar spring to the C327 (what I was looking at) available in Kings (KTPR-102?) and still have the poly airs to assist when loaded.

                            Keen to be involved in a group buy also.

                            Cheers,
                            Barrie.
                            Hey Barrie,

                            Yep Jim from Quadrant retired and Sydney Shocks bought the lot. Unfortunately they won't be making the 24-173032-1 either as they deem it to be too expensive.

                            I can do Dobinsons coils if you prefer, no problem.

                            My Prado is the same, runs around with just a steel bar and a fridge in the back, but then gets loaded to the max when I go off road.

                            I'll put you on the list!

                            Best

                            Mark
                            2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by 404pug View Post
                              Thanks,Mark. I have been doing my head in reading all those threads! I think I follow them! My 150 GX is set up very similarly to bazzang above and was zeroing in on a similar combination to him so this all sounds good. The only question is around ride quality with your proposed setup [and I know the issues around ride/handling] Neil

                              Update. Mark I am sure you have seen these but for the rest of us they make intersting reading. They sure sound like a good bit of gear. They and other bits I have read seem to answer my question re. ride quality unladen- not harsh at all.

                              http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/we-tes...hock-absorber/

                              http://www.ironman4x4.com/news/foam-cell-pro-testing
                              Hey pug,

                              Ride quality (passenger comfort) and vehicle handling are two inter-related functions in suspension design, increase the ride quality, the handling goes down, increase the handling, ride quality goes down. You can't escape it. OEM suspension is softly valved with low coil rates for all the city soccer drivers, and it handles like a boat off road. Most after market suspension uses stiffer coils and harder valving, so the car feels stiffer than OEM on road, but works much better off road.

                              The custom valving setup I'll be using in the Ironman Pros is designed with off-road capability in mind, however, it is still a comfortable drive around town. If you've driven a D563/1478LT Bilstein setup it will feel close to this valving on the street, but off-road it will handle significantly better with around 90% critical damping in the rear shocks, and front struts with shortened knee speeds that will for the first time be assisting in damping body roll, pitch etc during low speed 4wd conditions. The Ironmans will help dampen out all the low speed sloppy sprung mass movement and stop the Prado lurching around so much. You'll feel this higher critical damping in the struts on the road as well, they'll control nose diving and squat better. The high speed damping rate is digressed to a soft rate, it will be very nice on corrugations (with the appropriate tire pressures of course).

                              I would say these Ironmans are giving you the best comfort you'll get on road for the best off road performance. I wouldn't say there was anything harsh about this setup on road, it's actually pretty nice, you can feel the higher rebound if you know what that feels like and you ditch a wheel in every pothole, but it's nothing outrageous.

                              If you were in Brissy I'd say come and try my Prado, I'm happy to show you how it handles in every day city street driving, and then we can go and belt over some 2m long speed bumps at 100km/h and you'll see how well behaved the sprung mass is!

                              As I said previously, there are no secrets about this valving, the rear data is already posted, and I will post up the front struts when they're ready!

                              Best

                              Mark
                              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by photoprado View Post
                                While we're at it, what is the weight of the ironmen?
                                Hey,

                                6.3kg each.

                                Best

                                Mark
                                2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                                Comment

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