DPF and white smoke

[prodoco Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prodoco]

Yeah, once you start mentioning all this jargon do you really think it is a good idea to be taking a vehicle like this out into the bush? On top of this you also have to be super careful where you drive and park regarding the DPF and spinifex. Check out this thread on Exploroz, somebodies new vehicle burnt to the ground and trip ruined.

https://www.exploroz.com/forum/13514...o-hot-for-some

Goodbye reliable old diesel.

Agree, with 600C - 700C during DPF burn, bush land is definitely no go for Vehicle with DPF.

I believe yellow sign with '4WD only' will be changed in few years time to '4WD without DPF only'.

Good bye reliable old diesel, hello long range electric 4WD.

[LeadWings Member Find all posts View Profile Close LeadWings]

Reports from Cuda and others suggest that the regen is started by distance travelled and fuel used not by what I consider would be a sensible approach of measuring how much resistance is in the filter.

John, I am guessing they can't use pressure differential as that would be a function of how much gas is going through, so RPM, load etc so too hard to calculate unless done at constant conditions (eg no load idle).

[Kalgoorlieprado Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kalgoorlieprado]

A brief history on my situation.. 2016 GXL w/ approx 50,000km.. Had an issue mid year with DPF light coming on and flashing. Managed to get it to dealership in Kalgoorlie (was in between Newman and Wiluna, not happy!) without too much drama. A whole lot of blah blah blah from dealership.. Now it is there again, 3 visits later. Light doesn't come on anymore but noticing terrible fuel econ and occasional big cloud of white smoke. Got told this time they got some kind of software update from Toyota HQ, and to see how that goes for a little while. If no good, will look at ordering new DPF.

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

[Kalgoorlieprado Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kalgoorlieprado]

Double post.. oops

[prado R83D Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prado R83D]

Sounds like you need a new DPF mate.

[CamJam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CamJam]

A brief history on my situation.. 2016 GXL w/ approx 50,000km.. Had an issue mid year with DPF light coming on and flashing. Managed to get it to dealership in Kalgoorlie (was in between Newman and Wiluna, not happy!) without too much drama. A whole lot of blah blah blah from dealership.. Now it is there again, 3 visits later. Light doesn't come on anymore but noticing terrible fuel econ and occasional big cloud of white smoke. Got told this time they got some kind of software update from Toyota HQ, and to see how that goes for a little while. If no good, will look at ordering new DPF.

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

That's me to a tea. If you can remember back when you weren't having issues what was your fuel economy then? I had the ECU update after the white smoke/ clog thing as well and it obviously wasn't enough to fix it - 5000Kms later it was a DPF replacement.

[Kalgoorlieprado Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kalgoorlieprado]

That's me to a tea. If you can remember back when you weren't having issues what was your fuel economy then? I had the ECU update after the white smoke/ clog thing as well and it obviously wasn't enough to fix it - 5000Kms later it was a DPF replacement.

I recall it being more like 10L/100, rather than about 14L/100 these days.

I picked up the vehicle this arvo. Haven't had a chance to drive it much but will keep an eye out over the next week or so. They did do a manual burn, which when done last time, did lower my fuel usage to 11L/100 for a while. Service manager said they've installed a new piece of software and to give it a run, and if still no good they'll change the DPF

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

This update is in addition to the recall update that was done at 40,000km service. We'll see what happens.. Maybe I should cite the fire hazard line, or perhaps being at risk of yellow sticker, which is all true

I wonder what the difference is between the 40,000 km update and this additional one which is just for the DPF?

This is a copy of my post in the capped service thread so apologies for a double post but I think it may be more relevant in this thread:
I have booked my 40,000 km service for next week, even though I have only done 20,000 km. Apparently they need the vehicle all morning as it is "a big one" according to the woman on the phone.
She told me that I will also be getting the update which will be done under the guarantee, when I asked if this was the GGG38 which changes the burn for the DPF she had no idea. Can you wonder that I am a grumpy old git with very little faith in my servicing dealer?
I will try to find out when I take the Prado in what the update involves, remember that it is a manual and does seem to reach temperatures that are hot enough for the the filter to regenerate properly. I am not suggesting that automatics don't but the fast tick-over during a burn is higher and this is when the highest DPF temperature is reached.
I have monitored and recorded the distance between regens and time/kms of the burn plus temperature of the DPF so I hope I will be able to see what difference this upgrade makes.

BTW my average consumption is 8.5/100

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

All I can say is F$*!. New DPF replaced at I think 22,000km. Car is now coming up to 40,000km service and guess what the DPF is now playing up again.

Symptoms
1. DPF temp while running at 100km/h drops below 500 deg unless I change down to 4th and rev the engine.
2. Temp when idle on burn seems to be also below 500 deg.
3. Current burn ceased twice through cycle and percentage full started to increase.
4. Current km's travelled since start of burn up to 72km and this was with a high percentage of the burn on hwy speed.
5. No white smoke visible

My guess the 5th injector has ceased to inject or is blocked. Will have it in to Toyota in the next few days to sort out.

Question for all though is once vehicle is out of current warranty how is the DPF issue going to be handled? If its failing to frequently then there needs to be some leeway into how warranty claims are made on this issue outside normal warranty period.

Not happy

cuda

[LeadWings Member Find all posts View Profile Close LeadWings]

From my uneducated guestimations, there seems to be 2 failure mechanism:

First suspect issue with the system is the injector not the actual filter itself. As soon as the injector no longer atomizes properly, you will get inefficient burn, that means the filter won't get cooked clean. This would lead to the white smoke of un-burn diesel. Not sure what would foul the injector?

The second is the filter. From what I understand this is a whole lot of small pipes in a honeycomb arrangement (think a bundle of straws taped together). Without "perfect" regen, individual pipes are not cooked clean, leaving build-up in the pipe. On the next regen, a pipe with buildup will get less flow, therefore less heat, therefore not regen/clean properly and blow the particulates out. Vicious cycle. So then some of the pipes/straws block, exhaust back pressure builds up tot he point engine performance suffers.

Frightening that they are seeing failures (and in Cuda's experience multiple failures) so young.

[Tailshaft Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Tailshaft]

cuda - i know this doesn't help your cause, however when I was at Nunawading Toyota last week (I was there looking for a 2015 or older Prado and he asked why I wanted an older one..), I spoke to the service manager about the DPFs and the ongoing issues. Apparently Toyota have recognised the issue and are doing research into why these keep failing. He said there's no expectation as to what will come of it though. Sorry for the bad (unresolved) news.

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

Sorry to hear your ongoing issue cuda, by co-incidence my manual GXL had it's 40,000 Km 2 year capped service today, even though it has only covered 20,000 Km.
It had the "Ecu reprogram for IMV/Prado" the invoice says they "carried out the DPF ECU reprogram as per campaign"

It took much persistence to speak to someone who knew anything about it but eventually I chatted with the service manager.
He said that the reprogram "changes the parameters of the burn" When pressed as to exactly what this meant, was it to make the burn hotter or more frequent he said no it changes the way the burn time is arrived at.
For instance if you were driving a very long distance at say 110 Km/hr the burn would not now take place because they had found that doing a burn under such circumstances did not reduce the soot to ash but could make an oily residue.
He also said that the ECU does detect the pressure difference and the burn is started between 80-120% (don't ask me what 120% is)
My Prado had just completed a burn on arriving for the service and was on 8% when I left it, and 10% when I picked it up. I have driven about 40 Km since and it is already up to 36%

What does everyone think about what I have just been told? It does contradict what has been written on here, that the burn is calculated by distance travelled and fuel used. Is it B/S? I would love to think that it was true, the no burn if the engine is working at constant high (ish) speed seems a good idea.
I will keep monitoring my vehicle as best I can with torque pro on my head unit and will post if I notice any changes in behaviour. I still cannot understand why the DPF needs such regular regens, the manual which increases revs to over 1200 when stationary is a pain in the arse. Last night I was trying to reverse a boat into the garage while not disturbing the neighbours small children who were asleep and find it irritating to have the engine roaring away if a burn is in progress.

[CamJam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CamJam]

My Prado had just completed a burn on arriving for the service and was on 8% when I left it, and 10% when I picked it up. I have driven about 40 Km since and it is already up to 36%

I took mine in to have another look at it - after the whole white smoke/ ECU update I and ECU update II, then after a replacement DPF... that I now suspect is failing again.

I have to say - Toyota in Canberra have been awesome (Phillip and Fyshwick - both same mob). The Tech manager jumped in my car and drove with me for 20 minutes trying to see when it'd burn off and listen for a squealing sound. He was adamant he wanted to hear the squealing, so we drove for some more and it ended up about 30 minutes out of his day. That's the good part. The bad part is that at no time did we hear the squealing, nor did the car do a burn. It had be manually burnt just prior to us stepping off, and by the end of around 30km it was at 28%... now that seems high to me - 30 min/ 30 km's and it's more than a quarter full? He had is diagnostic thing into the OBD and hooked up to a computer and was monitoring the EGR, EGTs etc. Unfortunately without a burn, not a lot of point. But I just though I'd add to John's post by indicating that the 40kms'/ 36% that he has seen is about on the money - and I also reckon that's very, very high. Add's weight to the idea that a lot of people (myself included) have seen higher MPG figures since the recall.

Tailshaft - I hope that the manager was speaking the truth and Toyota get to the bottom of this...

[Hally Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hally]

All I can say is F$*!. New DPF replaced at I think 22,000km. Car is now coming up to 40,000km service and guess what the DPF is now playing up again.

Symptoms
1. DPF temp while running at 100km/h drops below 500 deg unless I change down to 4th and rev the engine.
2. Temp when idle on burn seems to be also below 500 deg.
3. Current burn ceased twice through cycle and percentage full started to increase.
4. Current km's travelled since start of burn up to 72km and this was with a high percentage of the burn on hwy speed.
5. No white smoke visible

My guess the 5th injector has ceased to inject or is blocked. Will have it in to Toyota in the next few days to sort out.

Question for all though is once vehicle is out of current warranty how is the DPF issue going to be handled? If its failing to frequently then there needs to be some leeway into how warranty claims are made on this issue outside normal warranty period.

Not happy

cuda

That sucks arse, I thought mine was shit even after there update!
Best thing Doug would be to let it fall out and get a ecu reflash.

[Phs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Phs]

Only Time will tell how many more will need replacing, we are at 28k no issues so far - fingers crossed, since update it seems to do burns a lot, fuel usage is also up about .5 a litre

I was tossing up a retune but am only hessitent because of these troublesome DPFs don't want them blaming the tune.