Originally posted by Whitey
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Hey don,
See here regarding the valving of the 712;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-150-Prado-IFS
While the plot in that thread shows a 150 OEM strut, it is the same damping curve for the 120. The 712 is just a copy of the OEM valving. Once you throw some accessories on your Prado, there's not enough rebound in the 712 strut to handle any extra weight or stiffer coils. If anyone suggests to you to run a 712 strut, then you may want to take your business elsewhere. Most people selling Bilsteins are not aware of the valving, what coil should be run with that valving, or how that valving will handle off road conditions.
See post #53 in this thread for the D563 valving;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Valving/page5
You'll quickly see the D563 runs the same compression curve as the 712, but much higher rebound. That is the 'advantage' of the D563, it will transform your Prado in off-road conditions.
The 350 or 352 Dobinsons coil will work well with the D563 valving.
The D563's don't allow too much droop for CV damage to occur, see here for geometrical binding limits on the 120 IFS;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-120-Prado-IFS
You are never in danger of binding the CV, which starts to stiffen up in the 585-590mm open length range. The real issue is the ball joint in the OEM arm binds up at the same open length of the D563 strut, 575mm. This means at full droop you'll be sharing the full roughly 100kg weight of the IFS between the upper arm ball joint and the strut. The strut is designed to handle the weight of the IFS hanging on it, the ball joint is not. This is why if you choose to run D563 struts you will need to either shorten their open length (as I did to 570mm), or get after market upper arms which droop below 575mm. Blackhawks with their new ball joint will do this. You can use a diff drop to alleviate the ride height angle on the CV. Diff drops only change the angle by around 1 degree at droop. It is at ride height where the CV angle is most important.
Regarding the rear, the 24-217897 is an excellent shock both valving and length wise. However the 325 coil is far too soft at 220lb/in for that valving. Further, you will really muck up the front:rear suspension frequency ratio running a 725/220 coil combination.
My advice is to run the C59-627 coil, if it is not easily available, you can always use the shorter 327 coil. Both the 627 and 327 are 270lb/in coils, and will be not only an excellent load bearing coil in the Prado rear, but the 270lb/in is very well matched to the 3700N/515N valving of the 24-217897. Running a 725/270 coil rate combo will be much better frequency wise and will help minimise pitch, something the rear of the Prado is very susceptible to.
My advice is not to lift past 790-800mm on the front, as even with the longest open length struts you will still lose droop in a 1:1 ratio, see here;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Prado-120-IFS
I keep my rear ride height around 830mm. The 790/830 ride height ratio gives the best handling on the Prado.
Regarding the Ironmans, I will be running a group buy on custom valved Ironman Foamcell Pros soon. For more info on what I am doing with the Ironman valving see these two threads;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...the-Prado-rear
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...uts-and-shocks
That should all get you pointed in the right direction!
Best
Mark
See here regarding the valving of the 712;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-150-Prado-IFS
While the plot in that thread shows a 150 OEM strut, it is the same damping curve for the 120. The 712 is just a copy of the OEM valving. Once you throw some accessories on your Prado, there's not enough rebound in the 712 strut to handle any extra weight or stiffer coils. If anyone suggests to you to run a 712 strut, then you may want to take your business elsewhere. Most people selling Bilsteins are not aware of the valving, what coil should be run with that valving, or how that valving will handle off road conditions.
See post #53 in this thread for the D563 valving;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Valving/page5
You'll quickly see the D563 runs the same compression curve as the 712, but much higher rebound. That is the 'advantage' of the D563, it will transform your Prado in off-road conditions.
The 350 or 352 Dobinsons coil will work well with the D563 valving.
The D563's don't allow too much droop for CV damage to occur, see here for geometrical binding limits on the 120 IFS;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-120-Prado-IFS
You are never in danger of binding the CV, which starts to stiffen up in the 585-590mm open length range. The real issue is the ball joint in the OEM arm binds up at the same open length of the D563 strut, 575mm. This means at full droop you'll be sharing the full roughly 100kg weight of the IFS between the upper arm ball joint and the strut. The strut is designed to handle the weight of the IFS hanging on it, the ball joint is not. This is why if you choose to run D563 struts you will need to either shorten their open length (as I did to 570mm), or get after market upper arms which droop below 575mm. Blackhawks with their new ball joint will do this. You can use a diff drop to alleviate the ride height angle on the CV. Diff drops only change the angle by around 1 degree at droop. It is at ride height where the CV angle is most important.
Regarding the rear, the 24-217897 is an excellent shock both valving and length wise. However the 325 coil is far too soft at 220lb/in for that valving. Further, you will really muck up the front:rear suspension frequency ratio running a 725/220 coil combination.
My advice is to run the C59-627 coil, if it is not easily available, you can always use the shorter 327 coil. Both the 627 and 327 are 270lb/in coils, and will be not only an excellent load bearing coil in the Prado rear, but the 270lb/in is very well matched to the 3700N/515N valving of the 24-217897. Running a 725/270 coil rate combo will be much better frequency wise and will help minimise pitch, something the rear of the Prado is very susceptible to.
My advice is not to lift past 790-800mm on the front, as even with the longest open length struts you will still lose droop in a 1:1 ratio, see here;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Prado-120-IFS
I keep my rear ride height around 830mm. The 790/830 ride height ratio gives the best handling on the Prado.
Regarding the Ironmans, I will be running a group buy on custom valved Ironman Foamcell Pros soon. For more info on what I am doing with the Ironman valving see these two threads;
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...the-Prado-rear
http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...uts-and-shocks
That should all get you pointed in the right direction!
Best
Mark
Roughly when is your group buy likely to be taking place?
Thanks again
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