Which 2 Inch Lift?

[don logan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close don logan]

Hey don,

See here regarding the valving of the 712;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-150-Prado-IFS

While the plot in that thread shows a 150 OEM strut, it is the same damping curve for the 120. The 712 is just a copy of the OEM valving. Once you throw some accessories on your Prado, there's not enough rebound in the 712 strut to handle any extra weight or stiffer coils. If anyone suggests to you to run a 712 strut, then you may want to take your business elsewhere. Most people selling Bilsteins are not aware of the valving, what coil should be run with that valving, or how that valving will handle off road conditions.

See post #53 in this thread for the D563 valving;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Valving/page5

You'll quickly see the D563 runs the same compression curve as the 712, but much higher rebound. That is the 'advantage' of the D563, it will transform your Prado in off-road conditions.

The 350 or 352 Dobinsons coil will work well with the D563 valving.

The D563's don't allow too much droop for CV damage to occur, see here for geometrical binding limits on the 120 IFS;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-120-Prado-IFS

You are never in danger of binding the CV, which starts to stiffen up in the 585-590mm open length range. The real issue is the ball joint in the OEM arm binds up at the same open length of the D563 strut, 575mm. This means at full droop you'll be sharing the full roughly 100kg weight of the IFS between the upper arm ball joint and the strut. The strut is designed to handle the weight of the IFS hanging on it, the ball joint is not. This is why if you choose to run D563 struts you will need to either shorten their open length (as I did to 570mm), or get after market upper arms which droop below 575mm. Blackhawks with their new ball joint will do this. You can use a diff drop to alleviate the ride height angle on the CV. Diff drops only change the angle by around 1 degree at droop. It is at ride height where the CV angle is most important.

Regarding the rear, the 24-217897 is an excellent shock both valving and length wise. However the 325 coil is far too soft at 220lb/in for that valving. Further, you will really muck up the front:rear suspension frequency ratio running a 725/220 coil combination.

My advice is to run the C59-627 coil, if it is not easily available, you can always use the shorter 327 coil. Both the 627 and 327 are 270lb/in coils, and will be not only an excellent load bearing coil in the Prado rear, but the 270lb/in is very well matched to the 3700N/515N valving of the 24-217897. Running a 725/270 coil rate combo will be much better frequency wise and will help minimise pitch, something the rear of the Prado is very susceptible to.

My advice is not to lift past 790-800mm on the front, as even with the longest open length struts you will still lose droop in a 1:1 ratio, see here;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-Prado-120-IFS

I keep my rear ride height around 830mm. The 790/830 ride height ratio gives the best handling on the Prado.

Regarding the Ironmans, I will be running a group buy on custom valved Ironman Foamcell Pros soon. For more info on what I am doing with the Ironman valving see these two threads;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...the-Prado-rear

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...uts-and-shocks

That should all get you pointed in the right direction!

Best

Mark

Thanks Whitey, an absolute mine of helpful info again. I'll look through those threads and educate myself a bit more as I want to get it right.

Roughly when is your group buy likely to be taking place?

Thanks again

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Thanks Whitey, an absolute mine of helpful info again. I'll look through those threads and educate myself a bit more as I want to get it right.

Roughly when is your group buy likely to be taking place?

Thanks again

Hey don,

The rear Ironmans have been complete for some time and have been properly field tested.

The front struts are about halfway through the valve stack redesign. Shortening the knees and getting the struts kinematically active in the Prado IFS is a great challenge to get correct in a twin tube design due to fluid exchange between chambers.

I still need to field test the struts once they are complete, so the group buy is still a couple of weeks off at a minimum at this stage.

Good struts like this can't be rushed!

Best

Mark

[don logan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close don logan]

Hey don,

The rear Ironmans have been complete for some time and have been properly field tested.

The front struts are about halfway through the valve stack redesign. Shortening the knees and getting the struts kinematically active in the Prado IFS is a great challenge to get correct in a twin tube design due to fluid exchange between chambers.

I still need to field test the struts once they are complete, so the group buy is still a couple of weeks off at a minimum at this stage.

Good struts like this can't be rushed!

Best

Mark

Great, well keep me posted and you may well have another customer...

Thanks

[Dabeanian Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dabeanian]

Hello boys, I've just been through the same exercise in Perth,I decided I wanted the bilstein shockies after going over the forums and most if not all the suspension places recommended the same , 712s and 713s, didn't matter what load I so not to confident I had read through Whiteys posts and what he had to say about 712s and 713s put me right of them ,I pmg him a few times and took his advice and phoned John from Zordos suspension, ( over east from Perth) told him what I had , 2 batteries sovereign bar roofrack and drawers , I also tow a caravan from time to time ,
He recommended and supplied ,
rears bilsteins 25-217897 and dobinson springs c59-327,
Fronts bilstein 24-238762 and Robinson springs c59-302 and not the ( standard for the prado)
Haven't fitted them yet but John was very knowledgable and went through the wys and wherefores .
Alan.

[BiLLz0r Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close BiLLz0r]

rears bilsteins 25-217897 and dobinson springs c59-327,
Fronts bilstein 24-238762 and Robinson springs c59-302 and not the ( standard for the prado)

This is the exact same package I'll be getting when I lift. Also will be getting them from John (aka Zordo)

[don logan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close don logan]

Hello boys, I've just been through the same exercise in Perth,I decided I wanted the bilstein shockies after going over the forums and most if not all the suspension places recommended the same , 712s and 713s, didn't matter what load I so not to confident I had read through Whiteys posts and what he had to say about 712s and 713s put me right of them ,I pmg him a few times and took his advice and phoned John from Zordos suspension, ( over east from Perth) told him what I had , 2 batteries sovereign bar roofrack and drawers , I also tow a caravan from time to time ,
He recommended and supplied ,
rears bilsteins 25-217897 and dobinson springs c59-327,
Fronts bilstein 24-238762 and Robinson springs c59-302 and not the ( standard for the prado)
Haven't fitted them yet but John was very knowledgable and went through the wys and wherefores .
Alan.

Spot on mate, just what I needed to hear... I'll give that some thought.

All of the suspension places that I rang (apart from one who was very good and actually listened and made suggestions accordingly) just rattled off to me the 'kit' that they install to 120 Prados, not asking anything regarding weight or use of vehicle, etc. When I mentioned the accessories I had fitted and asked about using other components or brands, the general response was 'why would we want to do that? we know what works', etc.

Let us know what they're like once yours are fitted.

Thanks

[Mkeech Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mkeech]

Hi guys, haven't posted much in the past but have certainly been reading a lot and thanks for all the great information
I have taken on board the 50mm lift suggestion Whitey and am keen to go with your suggestion but i have a curve ball , mine is a 07 Grande and i think rear spring options are limited .... with the King rear springs made to replace the airbags Which shocks would you recommend ? ( racks,drawers and generally loaded up a bit )

[Mkeech Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mkeech]

Or AMTS rear springs

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hi guys, haven't posted much in the past but have certainly been reading a lot and thanks for all the great information
I have taken on board the 50mm lift suggestion Whitey and am keen to go with your suggestion but i have a curve ball , mine is a 07 Grande and i think rear spring options are limited .... with the King rear springs made to replace the airbags Which shocks would you recommend ? ( racks,drawers and generally loaded up a bit )

Hey,

I haven't measured the coil bucket separation for amts coil converted Grande rear, so I can't comment on what the appropriate shock length is, although I'm sure amts can fill you in. See the AMTS spec coil options in the "Rear Coil Data" section of the suspension database;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...nsion-Database

They are quite tall coils at up to 425mm free height, so if the bucket separation is similar to the GXL, you'll need a rear shock well over 600mm to match it.

Amts will prolly be along shortly to comment!

Best

Mark

[Guest Close Guest]

Your Whitey custom 618mm rear shock would be perfect.

[Mkeech Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mkeech]

Sounds like i have a solid suspension upgrade plan

[PRO050 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close PRO050]

Whitey can I please go on you contact list for the group buy. Cheers Paul

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Whitey can I please go on you contact list for the group buy. Cheers Paul

Hey Paul,

No problemo, got you on the list!

Best

Mark

[Mkeech Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mkeech]

Me too, thanks Paul , how do i order the rear ones and what is the price ? Thanks again

[Mkeech Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Mkeech]

Thanks Mark, thanks for the reminder Paul :grin: