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  • #16
    ok, so im going for the Petrol V6, now i have found 1 i like, its modded with the usual fruit, uhf, ARB bull bar, snorkel and considerable suspension mods.
    3 inch, springs shocks and control arms, its a 2004 so only 4 speed auto, but haven't seen it in person yet.

    Comment


    • #17
      3" is a big lift for a prado. Id suggest talking to Whitey about the suspension mods before buying it. He is local in BNE.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Piggy View Post
        3" is a big lift for a prado. Id suggest talking to Whitey about the suspension mods before buying it. He is local in BNE.
        how do i get in contact with whitey?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Piggy View Post
          Go to just under pradopoint logo in one of the toolbars.
          Forum Actions> General Settings > Thread Display options > Set thread cutoff to a longer period.

          This is most likely the issue.
          thats got it sorted, thanks piggy

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Whitey View Post
            Hey Maty,

            A second hand petrol is definitely cheaper than a diesel.

            For a running cost comparison that includes the service schedule and at least x1 injector change for the diesel, have a read of this;

            http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...ost-comparison

            Post #139 on the final page shows the average savings/year vs fuel economy.

            Power and Torque for 1GR-FE vs 1KD-FTV;



            In terms of reliability, read this thread on the problems with diesel injector seats;

            http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-seats-Egr-Scv

            Every bit of information you want is in the above.

            Your last question about reliability: aside from potential oil leaks, the 1GR-FE is a very reliable engine that is low maintenance. The 1KD-FTV is a high maintenance engine that can be problematic and turn into an expensive rebuild if not carefully maintained and injector values/oil pickup/egr monitored carefully. The 1KD does not go well with chip upgrades and the pistons are on the weaker rather than stronger side. Conversely, the 1GR can be supercharged with a bolt on supercharger/exhaust kit, with to date no reported issues.

            Hope this helps!

            Best

            Mark
            Whitey, what advice have you got for me regarding 3 inch loft in a v6? as far as i know its ome shocks with superior springs and control arms.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Whitey View Post
              Hey,

              The 1GR-FE timing cover leak was in 04-08 vehicles;
              http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...IY-fix-at-home
              It was also common to see blown head gaskets around #6 cylinder in early 04 models.

              The timing cover leak is probably one of the most common oil leaks to keep an eye out for on the 1GR-FE, more of an annoyance than anything major.
              Best
              Mark
              Whitey is spot on. You can notice evidence of this leak if you look at the timing cover/rocker cover area just behind the Power steering pump on a V6. It may appear a bit oil damp and dirty.

              Mine appeared at 200,000 kms. It is there and sometimes after a hard run you will smell a small bit on exhaust. However it uses less than 100ml of oil between 10k services. So its not a big leak.

              It was cuased by a casting mark flaw in the timing cover, the sealant wears out between 150-250k kms and it leaks, some do some dont.
              Its a bit of work to fix it, if you can be bothered TBH. Its not that big a deal. It was corrected in 2008 vehicles with a revised casting of timing covers.

              Comment


              • #22
                I've just got a 2006 petrol manual 6 speed. Love driving it. More kw than a 4.5 petrol cruiser or a 4.5 v8 diesel. Smooth,responsive and comfortable.
                I'm off diesels though as I've been burnt twice bad.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Whitey View Post


                  Only just noticed - What happend to the extra 1KD torques Mark?!
                  The killerwasps look about right but torque should be up around 403 from memory.
                  Cheers
                  Micheal.

                  2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
                  2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 120D4D View Post
                    Only just noticed - What happend to the extra 1KD torques Mark?!
                    The killerwasps look about right but torque should be up around 403 from memory.
                    Hey Michael,

                    I plotted these curves in my own software from internet plots of the power/torque curves that I had in my old notes. I just interpolated off the internet plots.

                    To check the accuracy of my interpolation and if the torque curve actually corresponds correctly with the power curve, I just did the old fashioned calculation;

                    Power = (torquex2xpixrpm)/60

                    My calculated power curves are given as the dashed lines below, so the 1KD torque curve I had was pretty accurate, but the 1GR curve was slightly out, see below;



                    This appears even more confusing if you read the official blurb on Toyota sites;

                    https://www.toyota-gib.com/eng/vehic...s/engines.html

                    None of the maximum power or torque figures match the dyno plots presented for both the 1KD and the 1GR.

                    The maximum torque quoted on that Toyota website is 343Nm, which matches the Euro-IV compliant dyno data I have for non 5 speed transmission. The 5-speed automatic transmission has max of 360Nm as in the plots above.

                    I'm guessing the data I have shown is for Euro IV spec 120. In any case, the torque curve definitely reproduces the power curve for the 1KD.

                    I know the Wiki also mentions different torque for different markets;

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KD_engine

                    On that basis I'm guessing the Toyota website I linked to above has quoted 343Nm max for the Euro IV compliant 120, but shown the dyno data for the Australian market?

                    Sorry I haven't investigated much more than this, but if someone can definitely throw up a link to the engine flywheel power/torque curves for the Oz spec 1KD, I'll happily plot it up!

                    Best

                    Mark
                    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think your calcs are not based on the Oz spec model and the lazy in my just googled the 1KD specs and up comes this chart - seems to line up with the owners manual.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      I'd like to see the chart redone with the 410nm curve for comparison purposes.
                      120D4D
                      Avid PP Poster!
                      Last edited by 120D4D; 20-05-2017, 08:00 PM.
                      Cheers
                      Micheal.

                      2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
                      2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 120D4D View Post
                        I think your calcs are not based on the Oz spec model and the lazy in my just googled the 1KD specs and up comes this chart - seems to line up with the owners manual.

                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]25428[/ATTACH]

                        I'd like to see the chart redone with the 410nm curve for comparison purposes.
                        Hey,

                        This is the same image I discussed in the url link in post #24. Toyota states maximum of 343Nm and then has a plot with around 400Nm in it.

                        What is correct? Where is there a reliable source of information stating that the Australian model 1KD has around 400Nm of torque?

                        Happy to redo the plot when I see that!

                        Best

                        Mark
                        2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I think you are using the numbers from the Hilux engines. This site has good information.
                          http://australiancar.reviews/1KD-FTV-engine.php
                          http://australiancar.reviews/1GR-FE-engine.php

                          I did something similar last year with some numbers I found.
                          Click image for larger version

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                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Anth120playdo
                            Love the drive of the torquey diesel turbo.
                            You can always convert Power to Torque (that's what gears are for) but you can't convert Torque to Power...
                            So I'd rather have more power than more torque!
                            Go the V6...
                            Rob.
                            '08 GXL V6 Manual with: O/L Bar, Cibie Oscars, Safari Snorkel, Revalved Ironman 45710 Struts & 45682 Shocks, Dobinsons & King springs, MickeyT STZs, Eaton E-locker on rear, ScanGaugeII, InaWise TPMS, and a Tvan controlled via TowPro.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              This petrol vs diesel debate is getting old.

                              Sorry ####, that is marketing spin and yes torque is most definitely converted to power. Power does the work, not torque. As per the formula posted by Whitey, power measured in Joules per second (Watts) being the force (Newtons) applied at a radius of 1 meter (Newton meters) from the center of the crank for 360 degrees (2xPi) every second (RPM/60). You can view this description as the force of the pistons rotating the crank. Having an engine with higher torque values at lower RPMs just gives you more power at low RPMs where it is usable all the time. The petrol having 200kw of peak power and 380Nm of torque when nearing reline is not really usable. Those figures amount to marketing spin as well. However, the petrol does have a nice gradual increase in power as RPM rises. The diesel shows that power drops off after 2800 rpm and this is why it will feel sluggish after that rpm.

                              As you can see from the graph I have posted above, the diesel generates more power than the petrol at every rpm below 3300. Therefore, if gearing is the same then the petrol can do the same amount of work as the diesel but at higher rpms. This is also why the petrol needs to tow in a lower gear to lift the rpm to produce the power needed to maintain the velocity so the torque converter can lock up. If the engine cannot provide the power needed at the cruising RPM, the torque converter will slip the whole time increasing heat (joules) in the gear box paid for by excess fuel consumption. Regarding acceleration, the petrol will rev past 3300 rpm pretty quickly and stay above 3300 rpm throughout the gears. Therefore the petrol will accumulate significantly more power faster and will accelerate far better than the diesel.

                              Diesels are more fuel efficient than petrols because they have higher compression. The higher the compression the more efficient an otto cycle heat engine is. The higher the compression the longer the stroke, the longer the stroke the greater leverage (torque) applied to the crank. However, the greater the stroke the greater the piston velocity per cycle and therefore max rpm is lower. Diesels can also run very lean when not doing much work (when at idle) whereas a petrol needs to maintain air/fuel stoichiometry at all times. When you add a turbo to the engine it can use even less fuel when doing little work because engine volume is usually lower but it can still produce similar power outputs as a higher capacity engine. When under load, wasted energy in the exhaust is transferred to the intake air which makes the engine more efficient. Therefore, comparing the fuel efficiency of a turbo diesel to a normally aspirated petrol engine that has a 33% higher capacity is like comparing night to day. The turbo diesel will win the fuel economy argument every time!

                              Knowing this, why is there a petrol in my driveway? The main reason is because I think that the diesel engine is in lemon territory with all the failures it has had. The fuel savings do not amount to a new engine in the 5 years I plan to own the car out of warranty. The second reason is the smile that appears on my face when I floor it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                On my 3rd V6, had a 95 V6, 120 V6, now 150 V6 (had a turbo diesel Prado before the 120 petrol) would never ever go back to a diesel. My 120 I could achieve low to mid 11's on freeway with mods but running standard profile tyres but A/T's. my 150 comes in under 11's (10.8 L per 100 to be exact) again freeway, loaded but no mods on my 150 (just starting) so expect figures to be the same as 120 was. Around town absolute worst for my 120 was 17.2 for a full two tanks, nothing over 10k round trip, giving it off at the lights etc. superb engine. Even the old 95 series V6 was super reliable, I don't need exhaust mods, chips, tunes, catch cans, watching injector values I just turn the key and go. My 150 the only thing I do and don't like is the torque range is higher in the rev range then the 120 was, but once that vvti hits 3500rpm in my 150 sings all the way to redline and doing 130 with out blinking (of course in NT 😜&#128540 as long as they are well serviced there is no reason you won't see over 500 thou. There's a few earlier ones popping their heads up with head gaskets going but only minimal and not all have had excellent service history. Super smooth, super quit, super reliable, what more could you want
                                Face lift 150 Prado V6 auto. No mods yet

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