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  1. #13
    Shockie Maker of the Month Award Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maty View Post
    Hi Guys, im looking at buying a Prado 120 series but cant decide on Petrol or Diesel, looks like the petrol model is cheaper, whats the servicing costs like? power and Torque comparison? reliability?
    hit me with your opinions and info, especially what year models to avoid or go for, TIA
    Hey Maty,

    A second hand petrol is definitely cheaper than a diesel.

    For a running cost comparison that includes the service schedule and at least x1 injector change for the diesel, have a read of this;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...ost-comparison

    Post #139 on the final page shows the average savings/year vs fuel economy.

    Power and Torque for 1GR-FE vs 1KD-FTV;



    In terms of reliability, read this thread on the problems with diesel injector seats;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-seats-Egr-Scv

    Every bit of information you want is in the above.

    Your last question about reliability: aside from potential oil leaks, the 1GR-FE is a very reliable engine that is low maintenance. The 1KD-FTV is a high maintenance engine that can be problematic and turn into an expensive rebuild if not carefully maintained and injector values/oil pickup/egr monitored carefully. The 1KD does not go well with chip upgrades and the pistons are on the weaker rather than stronger side. Conversely, the 1GR can be supercharged with a bolt on supercharger/exhaust kit, with to date no reported issues.

    Hope this helps!

    Best

    Mark
    Last edited by Whitey; 10-05-2017 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Updated plot
    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

  2. #14
    Administrator Piggy's Avatar
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    Go to just under pradopoint logo in one of the toolbars.
    Forum Actions> General Settings > Thread Display options > Set thread cutoff to a longer period.

    This is most likely the issue.

  3. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Hey Maty,

    A second hand petrol is definitely cheaper than a diesel.

    For a running cost comparison that includes the service schedule and at least x1 injector change for the diesel, have a read of this;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...ost-comparison

    Post #139 on the final page shows the average savings/year vs fuel economy.

    Power and Torque for 1GR-FE vs 1KD-FTV;



    In terms of reliability, read this thread on the problems with diesel injector seats;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-seats-Egr-Scv

    Every bit of information you want is in the above.

    Your last question about reliability: aside from potential oil leaks, the 1GR-FE is a very reliable engine that is low maintenance. The 1KD-FTV is a high maintenance engine that can be problematic and turn into an expensive rebuild if not carefully maintained and injector values/oil pickup/egr monitored carefully. The 1KD does not go well with chip upgrades and the pistons are on the weaker rather than stronger side. Conversely, the 1GR can be supercharged with a bolt on supercharger/exhaust kit, with to date no reported issues.

    Hope this helps!

    Best

    Mark

    thats excellent, thank you very much.

  4. #16
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    ok, so im going for the Petrol V6, now i have found 1 i like, its modded with the usual fruit, uhf, ARB bull bar, snorkel and considerable suspension mods.
    3 inch, springs shocks and control arms, its a 2004 so only 4 speed auto, but haven't seen it in person yet.

  5. #17
    Administrator Piggy's Avatar
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    3" is a big lift for a prado. Id suggest talking to Whitey about the suspension mods before buying it. He is local in BNE.

  6. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy View Post
    3" is a big lift for a prado. Id suggest talking to Whitey about the suspension mods before buying it. He is local in BNE.
    how do i get in contact with whitey?

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy View Post
    Go to just under pradopoint logo in one of the toolbars.
    Forum Actions> General Settings > Thread Display options > Set thread cutoff to a longer period.

    This is most likely the issue.
    thats got it sorted, thanks piggy

  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Hey Maty,

    A second hand petrol is definitely cheaper than a diesel.

    For a running cost comparison that includes the service schedule and at least x1 injector change for the diesel, have a read of this;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...ost-comparison

    Post #139 on the final page shows the average savings/year vs fuel economy.

    Power and Torque for 1GR-FE vs 1KD-FTV;



    In terms of reliability, read this thread on the problems with diesel injector seats;

    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...-seats-Egr-Scv

    Every bit of information you want is in the above.

    Your last question about reliability: aside from potential oil leaks, the 1GR-FE is a very reliable engine that is low maintenance. The 1KD-FTV is a high maintenance engine that can be problematic and turn into an expensive rebuild if not carefully maintained and injector values/oil pickup/egr monitored carefully. The 1KD does not go well with chip upgrades and the pistons are on the weaker rather than stronger side. Conversely, the 1GR can be supercharged with a bolt on supercharger/exhaust kit, with to date no reported issues.

    Hope this helps!

    Best

    Mark
    Whitey, what advice have you got for me regarding 3 inch loft in a v6? as far as i know its ome shocks with superior springs and control arms.

  9. #21
    Administrator Piggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Hey,

    The 1GR-FE timing cover leak was in 04-08 vehicles;
    http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...IY-fix-at-home
    It was also common to see blown head gaskets around #6 cylinder in early 04 models.

    The timing cover leak is probably one of the most common oil leaks to keep an eye out for on the 1GR-FE, more of an annoyance than anything major.
    Best
    Mark
    Whitey is spot on. You can notice evidence of this leak if you look at the timing cover/rocker cover area just behind the Power steering pump on a V6. It may appear a bit oil damp and dirty.

    Mine appeared at 200,000 kms. It is there and sometimes after a hard run you will smell a small bit on exhaust. However it uses less than 100ml of oil between 10k services. So its not a big leak.

    It was cuased by a casting mark flaw in the timing cover, the sealant wears out between 150-250k kms and it leaks, some do some dont.
    Its a bit of work to fix it, if you can be bothered TBH. Its not that big a deal. It was corrected in 2008 vehicles with a revised casting of timing covers.

  10. #22
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    I've just got a 2006 petrol manual 6 speed. Love driving it. More kw than a 4.5 petrol cruiser or a 4.5 v8 diesel. Smooth,responsive and comfortable.
    I'm off diesels though as I've been burnt twice bad.

  11. #23
    Avid PP Poster! 120D4D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post


    Only just noticed - What happend to the extra 1KD torques Mark?!
    The killerwasps look about right but torque should be up around 403 from memory.
    Cheers
    Micheal.

    2008 GXL D4D Auto. GOING... GOING... GONE
    2015 GXL 1GD Auto. And it begins again...

  12. #24
    Shockie Maker of the Month Award Whitey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120D4D View Post
    Only just noticed - What happend to the extra 1KD torques Mark?!
    The killerwasps look about right but torque should be up around 403 from memory.
    Hey Michael,

    I plotted these curves in my own software from internet plots of the power/torque curves that I had in my old notes. I just interpolated off the internet plots.

    To check the accuracy of my interpolation and if the torque curve actually corresponds correctly with the power curve, I just did the old fashioned calculation;

    Power = (torquex2xpixrpm)/60

    My calculated power curves are given as the dashed lines below, so the 1KD torque curve I had was pretty accurate, but the 1GR curve was slightly out, see below;



    This appears even more confusing if you read the official blurb on Toyota sites;

    https://www.toyota-gib.com/eng/vehic...s/engines.html

    None of the maximum power or torque figures match the dyno plots presented for both the 1KD and the 1GR.

    The maximum torque quoted on that Toyota website is 343Nm, which matches the Euro-IV compliant dyno data I have for non 5 speed transmission. The 5-speed automatic transmission has max of 360Nm as in the plots above.

    I'm guessing the data I have shown is for Euro IV spec 120. In any case, the torque curve definitely reproduces the power curve for the 1KD.

    I know the Wiki also mentions different torque for different markets;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_KD_engine

    On that basis I'm guessing the Toyota website I linked to above has quoted 343Nm max for the Euro IV compliant 120, but shown the dyno data for the Australian market?

    Sorry I haven't investigated much more than this, but if someone can definitely throw up a link to the engine flywheel power/torque curves for the Oz spec 1KD, I'll happily plot it up!

    Best

    Mark
    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

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