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Toyota Prado Recall (Code GGG38) ECM Reprogram

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  • This is an interesting if slightly worrying thread. Now that I have my MY Sept 2015 GXL back on the road after a six month lay up I have been monitoring the DPF thanks to ExNissan posting how to read the DPF% on torque pro.
    As posted earlier by Cuda you can see the increase in 2% increments until 100% then a burn takes place with temperatures up to 750C with the % going down again until 6% when it stops.
    I haven't noticed any problems (yet) although it has seemed to do a regen quite frequently. I only notice as the stationary revs raise to 1200 rpm
    I haven't had any updates but am due for a service (see my other thread moaning about it) and I have nothing shown in "my garage" part of the toy motor website. I will ring the servicing dealer to hear what they have to say but possibly this update does not apply to a manual?
    Obviously I can select 6th gear at whatever speed I want, and as far as my brief monitoring with torque pro suggests that the burn temperature is high enough already.
    There is a lot of info about DPF on the net and the temperature needed for a burn appears to be over 600C. I have noticed that my highest temperature was recorded stationary at 1200 rpm it was less while driving.
    Lastly I would question how anyone would know unless you are monitoring the exhaust temperature etc that a burn was taking place during normal driving. The only clue I had was the increased idle speed when stationary.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
      Lastly I would question how anyone would know unless you are monitoring the exhaust temperature etc that a burn was taking place during normal driving. The only clue I had was the increased idle speed when stationary.
      increased fuel consumption via Current consumption

      PE

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      • Yes good point I hadn't thought of that. Is there a noticeable increase in fuel consumption during a burn after the update? this would prove whether more diesel is being injected into the exhaust after the update.

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        • I normally notice the burn when I start the car or while stopping at traffic lights. The increased revs are quite noticeable.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
            Yes good point I hadn't thought of that. Is there a noticeable increase in fuel consumption during a burn after the update? this would prove whether more diesel is being injected into the exhaust after the update.
            yes, very noticible, while my readout is set to current normally it sits around the 8lt per hundred, then during a burn it shoots up to over 12 lt per hundred, i've actually pulled over and noticed the revs at idle are higher, and air suction on my snorkel is alot more too.

            PE

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            • I’ve just been away to Bunbury for the weekend (200 km south) and watched my DPF status on my app an noticed something interesting/odd/worrying. App shows DPF%, exhaust temp (out of engine) and temp into the DPF.

              I left home with the DPF at around 70%. Car and camper trailer, cruising at 100 km/hr in 6th, 2000 RPM (manual gearbox). Between 70% and 100% DPF in temp roughly tracks exhaust out temp of around 450C as I’m cruising along.

              So the DPF gets to 100%, and then I watch the temp into the DPF rise as it starts to do a burn. It rises to around 530C max, sits there which I thought was unusual as for other DPF burns it normally gets well above 600C. Then for the next 50 km the DPF in temp seems to cycle between high 400C’s and low 500C’s, and the DPF sits at 100%. I have read on another thread that at speed there is too much cooling and it can’t reach the regen temperatures.

              Once we reached Bunbury traffic and slowed a bit it got the temperatures up and did a regen.

              So for 50km it was sending fuel down the exhaust for no gain. And at the detriment of fuel economy. This is particularly annoying for me as we often do drives to our farm (500 km away) and it looks like there may be situations it will try and regen the whole way, and just use a whole lot of fuel for no gain.

              I would be very interested to know if the fuel economy figures quoted for the Prado include the DPF 5th injector?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by LeadWings View Post
                I’ve just been away to Bunbury for the weekend (200 km south) and watched my DPF status on my app an noticed something interesting/odd/worrying. App shows DPF%, exhaust temp (out of engine) and temp into the DPF.

                I left home with the DPF at around 70%. Car and camper trailer, cruising at 100 km/hr in 6th, 2000 RPM (manual gearbox). Between 70% and 100% DPF in temp roughly tracks exhaust out temp of around 450C as I’m cruising along.

                So the DPF gets to 100%, and then I watch the temp into the DPF rise as it starts to do a burn. It rises to around 530C max, sits there which I thought was unusual as for other DPF burns it normally gets well above 600C. Then for the next 50 km the DPF in temp seems to cycle between high 400C’s and low 500C’s, and the DPF sits at 100%. I have read on another thread that at speed there is too much cooling and it can’t reach the regen temperatures.

                Once we reached Bunbury traffic and slowed a bit it got the temperatures up and did a regen.

                So for 50km it was sending fuel down the exhaust for no gain. And at the detriment of fuel economy. This is particularly annoying for me as we often do drives to our farm (500 km away) and it looks like there may be situations it will try and regen the whole way, and just use a whole lot of fuel for no gain.

                I would be very interested to know if the fuel economy figures quoted for the Prado include the DPF 5th injector?
                I've seen the same and told Toyota. They said nothing they can do at this stage. I decided myself to shift into either 4th or 3rd gear depending on the speed and was able to get mid 700deg on the DPF. I am seeing sub 10l/100km city driving now whereas I was seeing mid 11's pre DPF behaviour change. My suggestion is until they bring out the fix try to get the DPF up to 600 + anyway you can.
                2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

                Comment


                • Just had a very interesting response from my local service manager when I e-mailed him as above. Un-surprisingly Toyota are working this hard and hopefully have a fix coming out.

                  Details of how the system works are also very interesting - as suspected the ECU is not currently using the DPF differential pressure to calculate if a regen is required, but the update is planned to. Also interesting insights into what Toyota are seeing as the source of the problem.

                  "Interesting to see the data you’re referring is corresponding to our own reports we’ve got going and what we’ve been submitting to TMCA and TMC in Japan. What you’re seeing there is correct for the current programming of the vehicle and half the reason why they’re creating occasional issues. We’ve just had a big state meeting on DPFs and the global response from Toyota to the ongoing issues with them and they’ve relaxed a little and given us more specific information.

                  What was most interesting and informative relates to the calculation of the DPF obstruction status. The DPF capacity figure is largely and primarily based on an ECU calculated algorithm. It doesn’t seem to use the actual pressure differential sensor readings as much as the DPFs on the 1KDs in the Hiace vans and 1VDs in the 200 Series Landcruiser. This algorithm is based on a specific batch of testing vehicles when this engine was developed and utilised a test-bed DPF filter with 300,000km of simulated use. The long, slow burn is designed to maximise longevity of the DPF so it is still effective at that mileage. What they have been finding is that there are small differences to actual engine operation, creating differences of +/-10% to algorithm accuracy, depending on the individual characteristics of the vehicle. This leads to an incorrect calculation of particulate matter (PM) inside the DPF, which means that it cannot accurately regenerate the filter. There is an engine ECU recalibration being tested in five vehicles in the country as we speak and results are positive, both in terms of the white smoke issue and improvement in fuel economy. They are hoping to roll this ECM recalibration out across the range of 1GD engine vehicles by October-November. This calibration remaps the ECU logic to make it use the pressure differential sensors as a priority reading for DPF obstruction, rather than the algorithm based calculation. It also changes the nature of the DPF regeneration, remapping it to take half the time and increase temperatures for a more aggressive, faster-completing regeneration.

                  What you are seeing on your data recording is the crux of the problem. It was assumed at highway speeds, when the engine was being developed, that there would be a high enough fuel volume (temperature) and enough time to complete a DPF regeneration at highway speeds, but in reality, there is a large amount of ‘cooling’ airflow coming out from the engine (Approximately 450 degrees), that acts to cool the filter right as it is attempting to do a regeneration (At 550-650 degrees). What occurs in this scenario, is a binding of PM to the particles of diesel fuel injected into the DPF, which internally clogs the DPF. This leads to an extended period where the ECM is attempting a regeneration, but it cannot achieve the temperatures required due to the large volume of cool air rushing through the DPF. The first ECM recalibration addressed this fact, it reduced the amount of fuel being injected into the engine, injection timing was delayed, turbo boost pressure was reduced and DPF injection volume was lowered/removed, as a way of attempting to raise DPF temperature and prevent the clogging of the monoliths inside, due to the presence of unburned fuel. This was not successful in all cases, as it was more addressing a symptom, than the actual fault – a blanket algorithm that was not correct for all vehicles. The new calibration brings the DPF regeneration treatment into alignment with the operation of the 1VD and 1KD vehicles by using the pressure differential sensors to actually measure DPF obstruction. We have not had any issues with DPF regenerations and white smoke with Hiaces or 200 Series Landcruisers so far. It also looks likely that it will lift the vehicles into a Euro VI bracket for emissions, as well as improving fuel economy.

                  The short version of this is, yes, what you’re seeing is normal, for now. There is no risk to the DPF for being at sustained high temperatures (They are designed to withstand over 1000 degrees). The ECM is not constantly spraying fuel down the exhaust (Even with our more aggressive manual regenerations, it is a .1 second pulse injector operation once every 10-15 seconds) and will avoid this entirely if the conditions for a regeneration are not met. There will be a remapped ECM calibration to fix this issue out in the next few months which we are confident will address these issues. I don’t know if vehicle owners will be notified of this update when it comes out, but it will all be done under warranty conditions and should automatically be loaded onto each vehicle’s work order when booked in for servicing.

                  I hope this addresses your concerns."

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