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  • Forcing a DPF regen with OBD tools

    Hi All,
    been following this forum since I picked up a shiny new 2016 GX 2.8 Auto mid last year and after a year of benefitting from the collective wisdom here I've got something to contribute back.

    *USE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK (impolite yelling intended)

    A manual DPF regen can be triggered on the Prado/Fortuner 2.8L by issueing the following CAN message at the OBD port 07E0 05 30 29 06 01 01 00 00
    It also happens to work as an OBD2 broadcast message which allows us to send it via OBD2 devices such as the scangauge/elm dongle and apps such as Torque Pro that dont appear to support messages for specific ID's.

    In the android Torque application a custom button can be created for this command containg the raw OBD command data 30 29 06 01 01
    In the Scangauge a custom command/message can be added containing 3029060101 as tested by my good mate dave-c over on the www.fortunerforum.com.au forums.

    The motor needs to be running and ideally at operating temperature prior to sending this command (just once). The idle speed will come up to around 2000RPM and the engine ecu will run a full burn (dealer style?) for 10-15 minutes. The fast idle appears to be to bring the DPF core up to burn temperature and will taper off over time. Once complete the engine idle will return to normal. The burn can be stopped at any time by stopping the motor and will not resume at next start.

    This has been tested on precisely one Prado (my 2016 2.8 Auto GX - without the DPF ECU update) and precisely one Fortuner (Dave's 2016 2.8L Auto - with the ECU update). This is why I yelled at the start of this post that using this is done at your own risk.

    I had two reasons for wanting this ability:

    1. I wanted to be able to force a dealer style regen if I'm stuck in the middle of the bush with a clogged DPF, a Prado in limp home mode and a pissed off missus.
    2. I was hoping to be able to control when DPF burns take place so as to avoid the "burning the Prado to the ground" scenario, which for example could happen in spinifex midway along the CSR, by instead doing a manual regen at a time and place of my choosing. Say on a nice patch of bare dirt at every second or so campsite. DONE :-)

    EDIT:
    After further testing we know a bit more. The automatic regen burns are triggered at 100% DPF load (as noted by others) and as displayed by the scangauge/torque Pro and are only related to the magic 300km number by coincidence. Playing in Bendethra last weekend, and after an automated burn completed just prior to leaving the tar, I had the DPF back to 80+% in just over 100km of playing. Did a manual burn at the park exit (back to 8%) and then drove as per normal the rest of the week. The next automated burn kicked in at 100% which was 440 from the last automated burn and 340 or so from the manual burn.

    So:
    1. The burns trigger at 100% not a km value (as noted by others on the forums)
    2. ~300km of easy/mid load driving does equate to around 100% dpf load
    3. Playing off road can fill the DPF in 100km or less - Towing into a headwind too maybe???
    4. The manual regen does postpone the automated burn as we expected/hoped so we can mitigate the fire risk offroad by burning when WE choose!. Though I dont know why my first test of this didnt work as expected.

    Question - now that we have a way to monitor the DPF% has anyone seen it get hot enough to do a passive regen whilst driving? I havent done a long stint at 110 (cough) since Dave and I cracked the % PID but to date I have not seen the DPF light up or decrease by itself - only in response to the 5th injector firing.

    We're also hoping to being able to read the dpf clogged % and display that on the scangauge/torque app. The info is there (I've seen it) we're just not sure how easy it will be to get it out, decoded and displayed. DONE :-)

    Apologies if this info has allready been covered.

    Cheers
    -R
    ExNissan
    Lurker
    Last edited by ExNissan; 23-09-2017, 10:37 AM. Reason: More info from testing
    2016 Prado GX 2.8L Auto (The third tourer)
    Y61 becomes Y62, R51 becomes R52. Nissan what are you smoking?
    2013 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The second tourer)
    2010 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The first tourer)
    1991 Patrol GU 4.2 Auto (The training wheels)

  • #2
    thanks for posting mate , champion effort .

    EDIT : I read somewhere that the next model will be fitted with a manual regen button , so if this mod of yours works well i'll go back to the previous ECU software ( which uses less fuel than now ) and run a manual burn to clean out the DPF .

    EDIT 2 : after rereading your post it seems the ECU is not smart enough to realise the DPF is empty , so will attempt the burn as per programmed. I wonder if blocking one of the rubber tubes going to the pressure sensor will make it change its mind?
    nudgebar
    Member
    Last edited by nudgebar; 20-08-2017, 10:20 AM. Reason: more info

    Comment


    • #3
      Awesome find @ExNissan.

      Sadly, at least on the un updated ECU in my Prado it still wanted to do the 300km regular burn about 50km after I did the manual regen.
      Oh well I managed one out of two.
      I have a Fortuner and mine also does a burn every 300km for about 25km (give or take 5km depending on how many times I interrupt it). The ECU must keep track of how many KM's it's traveled since the last automated burn. We need to be able to read/write this value to fool the ECU into thinking it doesn't need to do a burn again after a manually generated burn. Won't be easy

      Comment


      • #4
        I thought it used info from the DPF's differential pressure sensors to determine if it was due for a burn ? maybe it uses these in conjunction with the KLM travelled , type of load , etc?
        hence my thought about fooling the sensor .

        im just thinking out aloud really i have no experience with these things

        Comment


        • #5
          As near as I can tell the ~300km regen is just automatic preventative maintenance.

          I've had mine perform a DPF burn at some stupid times. For example 400km of easy open road driving at 100-115 and then it fires off a DPF burn driving through a town at 60. That said its not caused me any grief and my fuel economy is 10.87L/100 to date which compares well with 13.5L/100 for my previous Patrol under the same use case.

          I suspect the pressure differentual sensor trips the DPF warning and if you're really out of luck limp home mode like 404pug's friend in Coober Pedy.

          But like you I'm just guessing based on my observations.
          2016 Prado GX 2.8L Auto (The third tourer)
          Y61 becomes Y62, R51 becomes R52. Nissan what are you smoking?
          2013 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The second tourer)
          2010 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The first tourer)
          1991 Patrol GU 4.2 Auto (The training wheels)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ExNissan View Post
            But like you I'm just guessing based on my observations.

            I suspect the pressure differentual sensor trips the DPF warning and if you're really out of luck limp home mode like 404pug's friend in Coober Pedy.
            What I've been told by Toyota is that the differential sensors are only used to trigger limp mode and send an error message to be displayed on the dash. The actual burn occurs based on an algorithm that uses fuel consumption vs km's done. Stupid system really because burns maybe occuring unnecessarily.

            The ECU update is supposed to increase the temperature of the DPF if you are travelling at high speed. They found the DPF was not getting hot enough and was clogging up.

            Regards
            cuda
            2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi all,
              After another couple of afternoons abusing our chosen beasts of burden (a Prado and a Fortuner) we think we have the DPF % full for the 2.8L sorted on the SG2 and Torque Pro andriod App.

              Dave-c over at the fortuner forum has written it up and in a fit of lazyness I'm going to cut and paste
              --------------------------
              You can create a guage for SG2 or Torque to display the DPF accumulation level just as a workshop scan tool does.
              The details for SG2 are:

              TXD: 07E02138
              RXF: 032104780000
              RXD: 4008
              MTH: 000200010000
              NAME: DPA (or whatever)

              For Torque, I believe you can set the PID to 2138, and the equation to J*2. That's it.
              ------------------------------------------

              This is again early days and we would be very interested in feedback and in particular if someone with a techstream could compare their readings with the sg2 or Torque output. The raw value we are reading appears to be in 2% increments and based on other posts here it appears that the % can range to 180% or higher - interesting interpretation of a percentage - go figure.

              When doing the manual burn proceedure outlined in our first post we see the %full uptick briefly, hold steady as the temperature at the DPF sensor climbs and then a steady decline until the active burn finishes at around 8%. If the car continues to idle we see the DPF continue to self combust for a few minutes more usualy finishing at 6 or 4%. If driven as soon as the burn finishes we see the temperature of the DPF rapidly fall.

              For those interested in torque pro the DPF temp sensor is the EGT Bank1 Sensor 2.

              -R
              2016 Prado GX 2.8L Auto (The third tourer)
              Y61 becomes Y62, R51 becomes R52. Nissan what are you smoking?
              2013 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The second tourer)
              2010 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The first tourer)
              1991 Patrol GU 4.2 Auto (The training wheels)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ExNissan View Post
                Hi all,
                After another couple of afternoons abusing our chosen beasts of burden (a Prado and a Fortuner) we think we have the DPF % full for the 2.8L sorted on the SG2 and Torque Pro andriod App.

                Dave-c over at the fortuner forum has written it up and in a fit of lazyness I'm going to cut and paste
                --------------------------
                You can create a guage for SG2 or Torque to display the DPF accumulation level just as a workshop scan tool does.
                The details for SG2 are:

                TXD: 07E02138
                RXF: 032104780000
                RXD: 4008
                MTH: 000200010000
                NAME: DPA (or whatever)

                For Torque, I believe you can set the PID to 2138, and the equation to J*2. That's it.
                ------------------------------------------

                This is again early days and we would be very interested in feedback and in particular if someone with a techstream could compare their readings with the sg2 or Torque output. The raw value we are reading appears to be in 2% increments and based on other posts here it appears that the % can range to 180% or higher - interesting interpretation of a percentage - go figure.

                When doing the manual burn proceedure outlined in our first post we see the %full uptick briefly, hold steady as the temperature at the DPF sensor climbs and then a steady decline until the active burn finishes at around 8%. If the car continues to idle we see the DPF continue to self combust for a few minutes more usualy finishing at 6 or 4%. If driven as soon as the burn finishes we see the temperature of the DPF rapidly fall.

                For those interested in torque pro the DPF temp sensor is the EGT Bank1 Sensor 2.

                -R
                This is gold ExNissan. Thanks for this info been interested in trying to get this for ages.

                cuda
                2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've tried the codes and confirm that the DPF values are being shown. The percentage increased in increments of 2 until 100 and then a burn occurs and returns to 6 and then shuts off. The burn process occurs approximately every 287km. If any of the process does not work correctly ie 5 injector blocked the program cannot detect this failure and thinks the burn has been successful. This would mean a forced regen at every 10k service would be wise and help keep the DPF cleaner.
                  I can't understand why Toyota have not used the differential sensors to confirm whether a burn is necessary or not. Seems like its such a waste performing a burn when it may not be necessary.

                  Thanks
                  Doug
                  2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The whole system seems poorly designed in comparison to the 79/200

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can confirm that the codes worked for me as well , cheers to those who made them available

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        At risk of a slight thread drift, how did you track down the codes, ExNissan? I have been trying to work out how to display the Injector Feedback Values for injectors 1 to 4 (I have a 1KD) on my Scangauge 2.

                        I have the tech stream software on the laptop, connected via USB. Do I need a serial 'sniffer' program?

                        Thanks.
                        2010 Prado GX 3.0L TD - "Paul" - TJM XGS 40mm Lift Kit, Firestone Coilrite Airbags, 5000kg Rated Front Recovery Points, Sure Power Battery Isolator and Dual Battery Setup, Airtec Snorkel, HID High Beam Headlights.
                        2008 Jayco Dove Outback - "Davo"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi cbm8880,
                          we used some CAN bus monitoring tools whilst interrogating the DFP% with a workshop tool. Ditto with the DPF regen.

                          Log enough data, apply adequate amounts of good quality coffee to the problem and job done.

                          I'm actually not familiar with the techstream product so I can't comment on what protocol is used between the CAN/OBD2 interface and the software itself however there are some very good tools for monitoring this sort of communication if you're technically minded. On the net/usb/serial sniffer side https://www.hhdsoftware.com Device Monitoring Studio can be evaluated for 14 days and is pretty good. Expensive to buy though!
                          ExNissan
                          Lurker
                          Last edited by ExNissan; 04-09-2017, 05:11 PM. Reason: crap grammer
                          2016 Prado GX 2.8L Auto (The third tourer)
                          Y61 becomes Y62, R51 becomes R52. Nissan what are you smoking?
                          2013 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The second tourer)
                          2010 Patrol GU 3.0L Auto (The first tourer)
                          1991 Patrol GU 4.2 Auto (The training wheels)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Do you have the differential sensor info? Would be interesting to see that data. Would give a more real picture of what is happening to the DPF.

                            Thanks
                            cuda
                            2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks ExNissan. I thought that might be the way forward. I assume there was no encryption involved (why would there be?). I'll look into it and post the results in a new thread if I can crack it.
                              2010 Prado GX 3.0L TD - "Paul" - TJM XGS 40mm Lift Kit, Firestone Coilrite Airbags, 5000kg Rated Front Recovery Points, Sure Power Battery Isolator and Dual Battery Setup, Airtec Snorkel, HID High Beam Headlights.
                              2008 Jayco Dove Outback - "Davo"

                              Comment

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