Forcing a DPF regen with OBD tools

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Hi all,
After another couple of afternoons abusing our chosen beasts of burden (a Prado and a Fortuner) we think we have the DPF % full for the 2.8L sorted on the SG2 and Torque Pro andriod App.

Dave-c over at the fortuner forum has written it up and in a fit of lazyness I'm going to cut and paste
--------------------------
You can create a guage for SG2 or Torque to display the DPF accumulation level just as a workshop scan tool does.
The details for SG2 are:

TXD: 07E02138
RXF: 032104780000
RXD: 4008
MTH: 000200010000
NAME: DPA (or whatever)

For Torque, I believe you can set the PID to 2138, and the equation to J*2. That's it.
------------------------------------------

This is again early days and we would be very interested in feedback and in particular if someone with a techstream could compare their readings with the sg2 or Torque output. The raw value we are reading appears to be in 2% increments and based on other posts here it appears that the % can range to 180% or higher - interesting interpretation of a percentage - go figure.

When doing the manual burn proceedure outlined in our first post we see the %full uptick briefly, hold steady as the temperature at the DPF sensor climbs and then a steady decline until the active burn finishes at around 8%. If the car continues to idle we see the DPF continue to self combust for a few minutes more usualy finishing at 6 or 4%. If driven as soon as the burn finishes we see the temperature of the DPF rapidly fall.

For those interested in torque pro the DPF temp sensor is the EGT Bank1 Sensor 2.

-R

Well done, this is some of the best information posted on Pradopoint this year by far in my opinion. After reading your post I immediately programmed a new Xguage on my scanguage 2, (I called it DPF) and also used the OB2 Command you posted to do a forced regen burn. The engine slowly increased revs to about 2,500 rpm from memory, and after a few minutes I could hear the DPF give a low "roar" as the burn started and I saw white smoke for several minutes, all in all it took about 10 mins and then the revs and EGR temps lowered, back to normal, and the DPF xguage settled down to a value of "6" .
I have had the DPF ECU "recall" performed at my last service, and I immediately noticed that the EGR temps displayed on my scanguage are now hotter by about 100 degrees or therabouts, from the low to mid 200 deg c, now the EGR temps are up to 300 and 400 deg , and higher when doing a burn, and the frequency of a DPF burn seems to have increased. I will report on any changes to mileage when I've done a 4 or 5 tank fulls of diesel and I have some half decent accurate mileage figures to report. Thanks "ExNissan"

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Well done, this is some of the best information posted on Pradopoint this year by far in my opinion. After reading your post I immediately programmed a new Xguage on my scanguage 2, (I called it DPF) and also used the OB2 Command you posted to do a forced regen burn. The engine slowly increased revs to about 2,500 rpm from memory, and after a few minutes I could hear the DPF give a low "roar" as the burn started and I saw white smoke for several minutes, all in all it took about 10 mins and then the revs and EGR temps lowered, back to normal, and the DPF xguage settled down to a value of "6" .
I have had the DPF ECU "recall" performed at my last service, and I immediately noticed that the EGR temps displayed on my scanguage are now hotter by about 100 degrees or therabouts, from the low to mid 200 deg c, now the EGR temps are up to 300 and 400 deg , and higher when doing a burn, and the frequency of a DPF burn seems to have increased. I will report on any changes to mileage when I've done a 4 or 5 tank fulls of diesel and I have some half decent accurate mileage figures to report. Thanks "ExNissan"

I would be requesting the DPF be replaced. You shouldn't be getting white smoke. I bet the 5th injector is not working correctly.

[ExNissan Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ExNissan]

Cheers guys, glad its proving usefull .

@brogers I'm with cuda - I've never had noticeable white smoke during a burn (car at 25000km) and I have only once seen a very small amount out of DaveC's 'tuna when it was doing a burn at a brief stop by the highway. One puff of white when he floored it back onto the h'way and that was it.

As for EGR temps I frequently see 300-350c with the sensor aft of the DPF usually 50c lower and lagging behind by a minute or two.
During a burn the highest I've seen on the DPF sensor was 725C (DAMN!!) which was at 110km/h on the highway.

As for the differentual pressure across the DPF I've not seen that as yet but we havent really looked either.

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Thanks gents..just to be clear...the only time I have seen white smoke was the one and only time I did a forced regen burn using the OBD2 command, and the engine revs increased gradually to about 2,500 revs, and it wasn't thick white smoke by any means, and I've never seen or noticed white smoke whilst driving or stopped at the lights when its doing an automatic burn ...does that mean anything?

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

Belated thanks to everyone contributing to this thread especially to ExNissan for posting the information.
My late 2015 manual GXL has been laid up for six months so unfortunately I missed this thread when it was first published and I have only just stumbled on it when searching for torque pro pids to add to my Chinese android head unit.
I have posted a couple of photos here: https://postimg.org/gallery/2frfk775y/ as I don't know how to upload pictures directly to this forum, may not be enabled?
If anyone has time to have a look at them you may be able to help with a couple of questions. The DPF % seems to be fine as does the temperature using bank 1 sensor 2 as described earlier in the thread.
My problems are that torque pro lists four temperature sensors, the first three look accurate? but the fourth reads -40C so I wonder just where the sensors are?
Also as you can see from the pictures that DPF pressure seems total rubbish, if as reported by torque pro the pressure 2267.3 bar then my exhaust pipe must be made of some pretty good metal.
My Prado has not had the ECU update/recall (there isn't a recall showing in my garage on the toy motor website) so I wonder what you think of my DPF temperatures.
The highest reading is nearly 750C, this was in the middle of a burn with the car at fast idle and stationary. This has always been 1200 rpm I think it may be different from an auto. DPF temperatures driving are about 250 around town to over 300 on the freeway, the three sensor readings seem to make sense and the DPF is usually the highest.

edit bugger I did manage to attach an image after all!

[ExNissan Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ExNissan]

Hi John,
yeah those numbers are all similar to mine. Ive only peaked at 725C and that was under the same conditions as your top of 750C but mines an auto and has a lower fast idle so that probably explains the slightly lower peak temp. The ECU reports 4 temp sensor values but only the three seem to be active with the fourth unused/unimplemented.

As you say the DPF pressure drop decoding in torque seems to be totally borked and I didnt spend too much time trying to reverse engineer the data format as that value isnt likely to be all that usefull. Assuming its the pressure drop across the filter core you would need to also know the volume of gas passing through the DPF core to turn the reported pressure differentual into a meaningfull DPF soot load number.
I expect the ECU is doing somthing along those lines anyway to arive at the percentage.

cheers
-R

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

I am still fascinated by this DPF issue and of course really pleased (thanks again to above) that I can now monitor % and temperature. I do not know yet whether my vehicle is due for an "upgrade" I will find out at the next "capped" (lol) service. So in the meantime I have been trying some very unscientific readings to determine the extra fuel consumption whilst a burn is taking place, then if I do get the upgrade I can compare my figures.
Today driving in light traffic along a straight road limited to 70 I could see the % nearing 100 so I tried to drive at the most constant throttle I could manage in 5th gear at 70 Kph. According to the instant fuel readout (which I admit is all over the place during normal driving) I saw between 5.5 and 6.0 L/100Km
Once the burn had started, and this was confirmed by the exhaust temperature going from around 300 to over 500C, the consumption rose to between 9.0 and 10 L/100Km.
I realise that this isn't a particularly accurate way is measuring but it looks like the burn is increasing fuel use at this constant speed and throttle opening by around 50% The burn has taken 15-20 minutes previously so this seems like quite a lot of diesel being used to regenerate the DPF
Any thoughts on this, and any ideas why our Toyota engines don't regenerate passively? I may be wrong but my only other experience with a modern diesel engined car has been with a VW Golf and Audi A3 diesels which as far as I know do not need to periodically burn the DPF.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

I am still fascinated by this DPF issue and of course really pleased (thanks again to above) that I can now monitor % and temperature. I do not know yet whether my vehicle is due for an "upgrade" I will find out at the next "capped" (lol) service. So in the meantime I have been trying some very unscientific readings to determine the extra fuel consumption whilst a burn is taking place, then if I do get the upgrade I can compare my figures.
Today driving in light traffic along a straight road limited to 70 I could see the % nearing 100 so I tried to drive at the most constant throttle I could manage in 5th gear at 70 Kph. According to the instant fuel readout (which I admit is all over the place during normal driving) I saw between 5.5 and 6.0 L/100Km
Once the burn had started, and this was confirmed by the exhaust temperature going from around 300 to over 500C, the consumption rose to between 9.0 and 10 L/100Km.
I realise that this isn't a particularly accurate way is measuring but it looks like the burn is increasing fuel use at this constant speed and throttle opening by around 50% The burn has taken 15-20 minutes previously so this seems like quite a lot of diesel being used to regenerate the DPF
Any thoughts on this, and any ideas why our Toyota engines don't regenerate passively? I may be wrong but my only other experience with a modern diesel engined car has been with a VW Golf and Audi A3 diesels which as far as I know do not need to periodically burn the DPF.

Hi John,

I did the math on it sometime ago and I worked out it adds about 0.75l/100km over a whole tank. I was using the Torque app to get the results. Not sure how accurate it really is. I have also noticed some odd behaviour with the Scangauge fuel calculations. When normal driving I am about 15 to 20% out on accuracy. When towing this drops to about 5% error. Very odd and I wonder if the scangauge information includes the use of the DPF fuel injection. I'm starting think not which might explain the discrepancies I get.

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

Yes good point Doug, I am only looking at the instant fuel readout in the centre of the dash as I have removed my original head unit and of course also removed the graphs for fuel use. I did wonder where this display gets it's information from although it does seem to make sense. I will be going up the freeway soon so will keep monitoring the burn and also set the trip meter as soon as it completes as I do think that my burns occur more frequently than has been suggested by others. Probably as I drive more like an old codger than the rest of you.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

I am still fascinated by this DPF issue and of course really pleased (thanks again to above) that I can now monitor % and temperature. I do not know yet whether my vehicle is due for an "upgrade" I will find out at the next "capped" (lol) service. So in the meantime I have been trying some very unscientific readings to determine the extra fuel consumption whilst a burn is taking place, then if I do get the upgrade I can compare my figures.
Today driving in light traffic along a straight road limited to 70 I could see the % nearing 100 so I tried to drive at the most constant throttle I could manage in 5th gear at 70 Kph. According to the instant fuel readout (which I admit is all over the place during normal driving) I saw between 5.5 and 6.0 L/100Km
Once the burn had started, and this was confirmed by the exhaust temperature going from around 300 to over 500C, the consumption rose to between 9.0 and 10 L/100Km.
I realise that this isn't a particularly accurate way is measuring but it looks like the burn is increasing fuel use at this constant speed and throttle opening by around 50% The burn has taken 15-20 minutes previously so this seems like quite a lot of diesel being used to regenerate the DPF
Any thoughts on this, and any ideas why our Toyota engines don't regenerate passively? I may be wrong but my only other experience with a modern diesel engined car has been with a VW Golf and Audi A3 diesels which as far as I know do not need to periodically burn the DPF.

Hi John,

I did the math on it sometime ago and I worked out it adds about 0.75l/100km over a whole tank. I was using the Torque app to get the results. Not sure how accurate it really is. I have also noticed some odd behaviour with the Scangauge fuel calculations. When normal driving I am about 15 to 20% out on accuracy. When towing this drops to about 5% error. Very odd and I wonder if the scangauge information includes the use of the DPF fuel injection. I'm starting think not which might explain the discrepancies I get.

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

Any thoughts on this, and any ideas why our Toyota engines don't regenerate passively?

According to this the 1GD does passively regerate but over time the soot still accumulates. Plus, it seems the ECU runs an active regen regularly anyway so those doing country miles will still have a regular burn...

http://toyota-club.net/files/faq/15-...engine_eng.htm

FWIW mine burns around every 260 - 275km around town. Weather I go for a highway run or not...

[ExNissan Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close ExNissan]

I logged a recent trip ACT to QLD and back and so far through the logs I havent seen any sign of passive regeneration whatsoever. The drive covered everything from flat straight road with constant load/speed to windy hilly stretches with constant on/off the throttle.

I have yet to find any reduction in DPF% in those logs that wasnt related to active regen.

-Rod

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

Thanks for the link in post 26, I wish that I had read this about the emission control system for different markets before I wrongly suggested in the 2018 Prado thread that there may be different engines when it seems the same engine has bits either bolted on or not:
- EGR - Euro 2, for the third world
- EGR+DOC - Euro 4, for the third world
- EGR+DOC+DPF - Euro 5, for Australia and Russia
- EGR+DOC+DPF+SCR - Euro 6, for Europe and Japan

I was also interested to read that the exhaust temperature sensor number 4 is fitted after the SCR catalyst, this could explain why we don't see a sensible reading as there isn't an SCR or sensor on Australian vehicles.
It clearly shows a differential pressure sensor either side of the DPF. Now if as suggested earlier in this thread this sensor only detects when the DPF is partially or fully blocked to raise first a warning then an alarm/limp mode, then am I correct in thinking that even if the DPF was passively regenerating it would not show up on the % readings because the algorithm that supplies this information is getting it's information from the fuel used and distance covered? Goodness knows how the % reading goes down during a burn either unless the ECU is computing time and temperature of the DPF and assuming that it is clear.
I hope that I have explained what I mean, I wont be offended if you think it is bollocks but I cannot understand how the ECU can possibly know the real restriction through the DPF unless it is reading the pressure either side of the filter.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Thanks for the link in post 26, I wish that I had read this about the emission control system for different markets before I wrongly suggested in the 2018 Prado thread that there may be different engines when it seems the same engine has bits either bolted on or not:
- EGR - Euro 2, for the third world
- EGR+DOC - Euro 4, for the third world
- EGR+DOC+DPF - Euro 5, for Australia and Russia
- EGR+DOC+DPF+SCR - Euro 6, for Europe and Japan

I was also interested to read that the exhaust temperature sensor number 4 is fitted after the SCR catalyst, this could explain why we don't see a sensible reading as there isn't an SCR or sensor on Australian vehicles.
It clearly shows a differential pressure sensor either side of the DPF. Now if as suggested earlier in this thread this sensor only detects when the DPF is partially or fully blocked to raise first a warning then an alarm/limp mode, then am I correct in thinking that even if the DPF was passively regenerating it would not show up on the % readings because the algorithm that supplies this information is getting it's information from the fuel used and distance covered? Goodness knows how the % reading goes down during a burn either unless the ECU is computing time and temperature of the DPF and assuming that it is clear.
I hope that I have explained what I mean, I wont be offended if you think it is bollocks but I cannot understand how the ECU can possibly know the real restriction through the DPF unless it is reading the pressure either side of the filter.

Yep thats what I was told by Toyota and I explained in another thread sometime ago. Its a crap system really which means even if the DPF is clean but the computer sees that you have done x kms with x amount of fuel a burn is going to happen no matter what.

Would really like to see the information from the differential sensor output and make some sense of the numbers.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Thanks for the link in post 26, I wish that I had read this about the emission control system for different markets before I wrongly suggested in the 2018 Prado thread that there may be different engines when it seems the same engine has bits either bolted on or not:
- EGR - Euro 2, for the third world
- EGR+DOC - Euro 4, for the third world
- EGR+DOC+DPF - Euro 5, for Australia and Russia
- EGR+DOC+DPF+SCR - Euro 6, for Europe and Japan

I was also interested to read that the exhaust temperature sensor number 4 is fitted after the SCR catalyst, this could explain why we don't see a sensible reading as there isn't an SCR or sensor on Australian vehicles.
It clearly shows a differential pressure sensor either side of the DPF. Now if as suggested earlier in this thread this sensor only detects when the DPF is partially or fully blocked to raise first a warning then an alarm/limp mode, then am I correct in thinking that even if the DPF was passively regenerating it would not show up on the % readings because the algorithm that supplies this information is getting it's information from the fuel used and distance covered? Goodness knows how the % reading goes down during a burn either unless the ECU is computing time and temperature of the DPF and assuming that it is clear.
I hope that I have explained what I mean, I wont be offended if you think it is bollocks but I cannot understand how the ECU can possibly know the real restriction through the DPF unless it is reading the pressure either side of the filter.

Yep thats what I was told by Toyota and I explained in another thread sometime ago. Its a crap system really which means even if the DPF is clean but the computer sees that you have done x kms with x amount of fuel a burn is going to happen no matter what.

Would really like to see the information from the differential sensor output and make some sense of the numbers.