Kakadu Tow Capacity GCM upgrade

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

Yes, you need to deduct (or add, view dependant) the 220kg's from your GVM capacity.

yes but you can only count the weight on one or the other which is it ?
car & van is under GCM buy 100kg, but car is over by 250kg

[Guest Close Guest]

TBM is counted towards your GVM. Neither your GVM, GCM, or ATM can be exceeded.

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

still hasnt answer the question is
if the tow ball weight is added to the gvm of the car can i shift 220kg from the car into the van ?
my gcm is 5300kg the van is 2130kg connected the car is 3170kg with van connected

i have gear in the car that i could move into the van for the drive, then fit it back into the car when we need to go off from the van

[Guest Close Guest]

Yes you can shift 200kg to the van provided that you won't exceed the ATM of the van.

[CamJam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CamJam]

still hasnt answer the question is
if the tow ball weight is added to the gvm of the car can i shift 220kg from the car into the van ?
my gcm is 5300kg the van is 2130kg connected the car is 3170kg with van connected

i have gear in the car that i could move into the van for the drive, then fit it back into the car when we need to go off from the van

Not sure precisely what you mean... Neither the GCM nor the GVM can be exceeded, nor the towing limit. If the trailer weights 2500kg, with a 250kg downforce on the lowball, then;

You need to check your GCM: Car weight + Trailer weight... Presuming a tick on that, then you need to check
Your GVM. This is your car weight (mine sits at 2600Kg with me, full fuel and recovery gear), plus the downforce = 2600 + 250 = 2850 - so good to go there too.

A lot of people assume that if you hook up a trailer, then the GVM becomes redundant. It doesn't - the downforce on your towbar needs to be added to the weight of your car (GVM).

That's why I didn't go to the Landcruiser 200 series, but chose a Prado GXL instead (Kakadu has the same issue). The LC200 has a payload of only 610kg. Now add two people and full fuel (about 300Kg) and you have 310kg to play with. If you then put a 3500kg trailer on it, with a 300kg downforce on the tow bar - you can put another 10kg's in your car as a load before you exceed your GVM, and therefore become un-roadworthy/ uninsured.

Even the 300Kg's isn't high enough. Convert it to touring (Bar, rack, spare 6th wheel) and you're now left with around 160kgs. If you want to take 60L of water for a desert tour - then that leaves 100Kgs for all your camping gear, clothes, food etc - and that with two people in it (we have four).

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

thanks, wasnt trying to jack his thread

just trying to sort out weights ( as we are all in the same boat)
if a prado can tow 2.5T
and you dont exceed your GCM (5400
your car has a 2900GVM ( can be done to 3090kg)

my issue is the distribution of weight

weights of all individually
my car sits at max gvm (2900kg) with 2 adults all our gear and full of fuel, ( i need to look at what i can remove while travelling with the van )
my van weighs 2350kg full ready to go with water , food clothes etc, nothing more needed in the van ( max for the van 2450kg so 100kg under)
tow ball weigh is 220kg (i also use a WDH which makes the pair drive and handle awesome, enough that i would let the misses drive it without issues !!)
combination weight but not connected is 5250kg 150kg under max GCM

now connect them
car weighs 3120kg , van weighs 2130kg combined is 5250kg
if you add the ball weight to the car when connected how can you still have the ball weight in the van when they are connected
i have asked this question to engineers and i get different answers , i've even asked the police and they cant answer

on a much bigger issue is the weights on the car
i can remove the twin rear wheel carrier & lose 1 wheel ( i could put the wheel in the van )
i can remove the fridge & 2nd battery from the car ( can put the fridge in the van if required, but not necessary unless we go off 4WDing without the van)
i can take all the recovery gear & tools out and put in the van
then i get the car down to
car 2850kg with the van connected
van is now 2400kg connected
combined is 5250kg ( axles are 2500kg rated as are the tyres rims etc)

when connected all is good under on all axles

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

Yes you can shift 200kg to the van provided that you won't exceed the ATM of the van.

Off the shelf van payloads are usually around 300kg for single and 400kg for tandem so shifting 200kg to the van is not viable unless a) you travel VERY light with van contents and/or b) you have a van with a 600kg+ payload.

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

thanks, wasnt trying to jack his thread

just trying to sort out weights ( as we are all in the same boat)
if a prado can tow 2.5T
and you dont exceed your GCM (5400
your car has a 2900GVM ( can be done to 3090kg)

my issue is the distribution of weight
correct

weights of all individually
my car sits at max gvm (2900kg) with 2 adults all our gear and full of fuel, ( i need to look at what i can remove while travelling with the van )
my van weighs 2350kg full ready to go with water , food clothes etc, nothing more needed in the van ( max for the van 2450kg so 100kg under)
tow ball weigh is 220kg (i also use a WDH which makes the pair drive and handle awesome, enough that i would let the misses drive it without issues !!)
combination weight but not connected is 5250kg 150kg under max GCM
if you're at your GVM before you hitch-up the only way to get it legal is to remove some weight - you can't tow at your gvm unless you're including the TBM in that weight limit.

now connect them
car weighs 3120kg as above - over by 220 , van weighs 2130kg okcombined is 5250kg ok
if you add the ball weight to the car when connected how can you still have the ball weight in the van when they are connected
i have asked this question to engineers and i get different answers , i've even asked the police and they cant answer you cant! - the TBM is added to the vehicle's GVM the moment its hitched-up.

on a much bigger issue is the weights on the car
i can remove the twin rear wheel carrier & lose 1 wheel ( i could put the wheel in the van )
i can remove the fridge & 2nd battery from the car ( can put the fridge in the van if required, but not necessary unless we go off 4WDing without the van)
i can take all the recovery gear & tools out and put in the van
then i get the car down to
car 2850kg with the van connected
van is now 2400kg connected
combined is 5250kg ( axles are 2500kg rated as are the tyres rims etc)
this appears to the only way you can legally tow your van...

when connected all is good under on all axles

comments above

[Guest Close Guest]

When you put the TBM onto the GVM, you remove it from the ATM, thus leaving the GTM which is the weight over the van's axles.

Van:
GTM + TBM = ATM

Prado
TBM + payload + kerb weight = GVM

From your comments:
Max ATM = 2450kg
Currently you're at 2350kg and have 100kg headroom. You can only transfer 100kg from the Prado to the van. Depending on where you put that 100kg (in front of, on, or behind the van's axle) will alter the weight of the TBM.

I recall reading some research that 7% TBM is ideal and not the rule of thumb 10% that Oz seems to go with. But you don't want to distribute the weight far to the rear of the van's axles to lighten the TBM as that causes stability issues. 7% of 2450kg is 171.5kg.

So if you are at Max GVM un hooked, you can transfer 100kg to the van, redistribute some weight in the van to get TBM of 171.5kg and you will end up 71.5kg over the Prado's GVM. Time to lose some weight to remain legal or a GVM+GCM upgrade.

[GEEEXL Member Find all posts View Profile Close GEEEXL]

Not sure precisely what you mean... Neither the GCM nor the GVM can be exceeded, nor the towing limit. If the trailer weights 2500kg, with a 250kg downforce on the lowball, then;

You need to check your GCM: Car weight + Trailer weight... Presuming a tick on that, then you need to check
Your GVM. This is your car weight (mine sits at 2600Kg with me, full fuel and recovery gear), plus the downforce = 2600 + 250 = 2850 - so good to go there too.

A lot of people assume that if you hook up a trailer, then the GVM becomes redundant. It doesn't - the downforce on your towbar needs to be added to the weight of your car (GVM).

That's why I didn't go to the Landcruiser 200 series, but chose a Prado GXL instead (Kakadu has the same issue). The LC200 has a payload of only 610kg. Now add two people and full fuel (about 300Kg) and you have 310kg to play with. If you then put a 3500kg trailer on it, with a 300kg downforce on the tow bar - you can put another 10kg's in your car as a load before you exceed your GVM, and therefore become un-roadworthy/ uninsured.

Even the 300Kg's isn't high enough. Convert it to touring (Bar, rack, spare 6th wheel) and you're now left with around 160kgs. If you want to take 60L of water for a desert tour - then that leaves 100Kgs for all your camping gear, clothes, food etc - and that with two people in it (we have four).

200 series GVM upgrades are up to 500kg's increase 3300kg's to 3800kg's

playdos are a pathetic increase of <200kgs

and the 4.5L V8 Twin Turbs has plenty of grunt to move the mass

prado is and always has bee a light duty landcruiser - http://blog.toyota.co.uk/history-of-...-duty-models-2

[120D4D Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 120D4D]

Lovells 510kg GVM upgrade for Prado

https://www.lovellsauto.com.au/product12.php


Even Statewide do a 360kg...

http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-p...50-series.aspx

[Guest Close Guest]

Looks like Statewide are modifying the axle capacities. Not sure if that is a good thing.

[GEEEXL Member Find all posts View Profile Close GEEEXL]

Looks like Statewide are modifying the axle capacities. Not sure if that is a good thing.

roof rack on a mini moke IMHO

still need to move the tonnage

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Looks like Statewide are modifying the axle capacities. Not sure if that is a good thing.

How do you put a "revised" axle capacity placard on the car without actually changing the axles!?

Another factor not discussed in this thread is the valving used in the rear shocks and the type of rear shock used. Around 80% of the kinematic control of a solid axle rear/IFS front vehicle comes from the rear shocks, and in particular the rear shock rebound damping.

Climax upgrade originally offered Bilsteins (713's) and Konis (90-5404) that are very under valved on rebound, not to mention limited travel. I believe they now offer better alternatives than these, such as 1478LT and apparently an upgraded Koni which we know little yet about valving or travel.

Statewide offer 35mm twin tubes which will quickly fade out under heavy load cycling, no matter what valving they put in them.

Been there done that with 35mm twins, 713's, 90-5404 in heavy Prados, none of them work. An engineer might tick these off because they pass a GVM swerve test, but off road where it really counts, your Prado will be a pitching boat on these shocks.

It's a lot of money for a GVM/GCM upgrade, and weight distribution issues aside, I'd be asking a lot of questions about the valving. An engineers report with shock dyno should come standard as part of the package.

Best

Mark

[CamJam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close CamJam]

200 series GVM upgrades are up to 500kg's increase 3300kg's to 3800kg's

playdos are a pathetic increase of <200kgs

and the 4.5L V8 Twin Turbs has plenty of grunt to move the mass

prado is and always has bee a light duty landcruiser - http://blog.toyota.co.uk/history-of-...-duty-models-2

Yup - but I wasn't after an engineered solution. Stock standard, and GXL to GXL, the Prado has a higher payload. That's why I went that way. With regards to performance - granted, the LC200 wins hands down. So does the V8 Patrol. But I didn't (think) I needed that much power. Now, I'm not so sure...