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KDSS vs High quality suspension upgrade

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  • KDSS vs High quality suspension upgrade

    I am curious to hear from people who have experienced both types of suspension, KDSS and a high quality upgrade such as Whitey's Ironman set-up.
    I haven't experienced KDSS but t is my understanding that KDDS provides improved cornering and also increased travel while keeping the car more level during severe 4WD articulation (flex).

    So how do they compare, what are the pros and cons of each?
    [B]Steve[/B]

    2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

  • #2
    You can fit good springs and shocks to KDSS
    We fitted BP51s to our kak And run them fairly soft, the ride is perfect, Super soft on the rough stuff and corners like it's on rails.

    Comment


    • #3
      A more direct and relevant comparison to KDSS is a swaybar disconnect system.

      Comment


      • #4
        Here is a good video that explains KDSS
        https://youtu.be/NLF6n3nMwww

        The wheel travel off-road ( Flex ) is a lot better off-road due to the ability to disconnect the sway bar

        Comment


        • #5
          Hey all,

          Interesting discussion! My first general thought is that KDSS is like having high critically damped shocks...but mostly only for body roll modes.

          The BP-51's are a case in point for the necessity of KDSS, BP-51's are valved very lightly (read very light) under 150mm/s, meaning they are missing a lot of low velocity critical damping which aids enormously in controlling kinematic modes such as body roll, squat, heave etc.

          KDSS is great at controlling body roll, but it is not great at controlling longitudinal modes such as pitch, heave and squat. You'll still need properly valved rear shocks to minimise those modes off-road, particularly in heavy packed up Prados.

          A non-KDSS Prado with a well valved critically damped setup front and rear will minimise ALL kinematic modes, whereas KDSS will minimise mostly lateral body roll.

          Travel wise you can fit rear shocks out past 700mm open length if you want to, so the argument of more articulation with KDSS really only applies to OEM suspension.

          No matter what vehicle you have, you'll still want high critically damped struts and shocks!

          Best

          Mark
          2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Mark

            Have you been in a KDSS Prado with 51s ?
            Happy to take you out for a run on and off-road it's the best ride quality I have experienced

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Whitey View Post
              Hey all,

              Interesting discussion! My first general thought is that KDSS is like having high critically damped shocks...but mostly only for body roll modes.

              The BP-51's are a case in point for the necessity of KDSS, BP-51's are valved very lightly (read very light) under 150mm/s, meaning they are missing a lot of low velocity critical damping which aids enormously in controlling kinematic modes such as body roll, squat, heave etc.

              KDSS is great at controlling body roll, but it is not great at controlling longitudinal modes such as pitch, heave and squat. You'll still need properly valved rear shocks to minimise those modes off-road, particularly in heavy packed up Prados.

              A non-KDSS Prado with a well valved critically damped setup front and rear will minimise ALL kinematic modes, whereas KDSS will minimise mostly lateral body roll.

              Travel wise you can fit rear shocks out past 700mm open length if you want to, so the argument of more articulation with KDSS really only applies to OEM suspension.

              No matter what vehicle you have, you'll still want high critically damped struts and shocks!

              Best

              Mark
              Mark, good point about the longitudinal control (front/back) which one of the things I really disliked before upgrading my suspension. Looking at the design of KDSS it doesn't appear to address this, unless there is hydraulic action front to back?
              [B]Steve[/B]

              2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

              Comment


              • #8
                Cant say I have noticed any of these longitudinal issues mentioned

                Well I guess you could just pop these high quality ironman shocks in and pull the swaybar out when you hit the dirt and win win

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Phs View Post
                  Cant say I have noticed any of these longitudinal issues mentioned

                  Well I guess you could just pop these high quality ironman shocks in and pull the swaybar out when you hit the dirt and win win
                  Hey,

                  As the old saying goes, don't knock it until you try it!

                  I'm in Melbourne next week, and I'm more than happy to line you up against an FJ that is running my Ironman setup. This will involve an urban obstacle testing course, hard edged gutters, median strips, speedbumps. We'll soon find out if your Prado pitches with a good old fashioned Maurice Olley test!

                  Best

                  Mark
                  2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dont forget the RZ to the victor!

                    I drove a VX when we bought this GXL. It was much better to drive even with the stock Toyota prawn trawler damping. Cost and 18s and me being a sook meant we went for the GXL. However I do not think it would compare well to a properly modded whitey valved prado, in my opinion. A KDSS with whitey valving? Betterer again I would think.
                    My 150 build - http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?27423-A-Random-approach-to-a-Bluestorm-150-GXL-D4D-automatic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Cool I'll pop the 35" Trep beadlocks on and we can have a party hitting hard curved gutters jumping median strips

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Phs View Post
                        Cool I'll pop the 35" Trep beadlocks on and we can have a party hitting hard curved gutters jumping median strips
                        35's, that sounds like compensating to me, hahaha!!

                        Like Jerry says "The race is on!".....

                        ...but we're racing for suspension pink slips right!?

                        Look what you started Steve!

                        In all seriousness, it'll be an interesting test for the KDSS, and if it doesn't pitch then colour me impressed!

                        Best

                        Mark
                        2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Err.... whos FJ have you volunteered for this test?

                          Originally posted by Whitey View Post
                          Like Jerry says "The race is on!".....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Whitey View Post
                            35's, that sounds like compensating to me, hahaha!!

                            Like Jerry says "The race is on!".....

                            ...but we're racing for suspension pink slips right!?

                            Look what you started Steve!

                            In all seriousness, it'll be an interesting test for the KDSS, and if it doesn't pitch then colour me impressed!

                            Best

                            Mark
                            I'll hook the PitchOmeter on and see how it shapes Up.......... or Down

                            The only Pitching going on is me on my computer chair as Im typing right now

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by drwormy View Post
                              Err.... whos FJ have you volunteered for this test?
                              Only the best FJ driver in Melbourne that's who!!

                              ...his FJ is whispered about in hushed tones of awe on dark SE Melbourne street corners, the yellow terror!

                              Don't forget the helmets!
                              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                              Comment

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