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Stats on injector problems with the 1KD-FTV.

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  • #1
    Injector number affected : Not sure as toyota fudged print-out! (I still have them).

    Problem : According to toyota within range! (Yeh right!).

    Vehicle : 2007 1KDJ120 GX.

    Warranty work or not : Out of warranty of course.

    Kms when first had the problem : first complaint @ 20k

    kms. "Apparently" cold check @ (44760km 10-03-09)-(59689km 08-09-09)-(78786km 05-05-10).

    Fuel being used : Always been Caltex.

    Who fixed the problem: I did. (Toyota are arrogent).

    The Fix: All four injectors, New out of the box from DENSO (Not reconditioned & "NOT" Toyota) @ 120280km

    Outcome: Smoother idle/Power & better fuel consumption.

    Total cost to Me Including Calibration programming: $2,882 & Nil dollars for my time to Remove-Replace.

    Cheers

    Comment


    • #2
      I cut and pasted my eply across from the other thread on rattle in the D4... Densom Injector Rattle in Pre-2008 D4D

      Hi All,

      After reading up on the common problems experienced with pre-2008 D4D Densom injectors on this site, I was confident in identifying and reporting the significant cold start rattle over severall service intervals since buying the car with 100,00kms. At 150K the engine light finally came on after Toyota had reflashed the CPU. The injector diagnoistic came back with that all the injectors were "out of specification".

      I was surprised that such a diagnostic had not been performed when I first reported the problem and I then requested an "out of warranty claim". I also wrote a supporting letter to Toyota Australia as a loyal customer explaing this appeared to be a common design fault. Despite having over 150kms on the clock, Toyota kindly offered to 50% of the costs for labour and parts to replace all 4 injectors and lines with the post 2008 ones. Total cost would have been $3600 so at $1800 I think got a great deal considering I am well out of warranty. %100 percent would have been better. Anyway - Big thanks to Toyota for comming through.

      The really great news is that the new injectors have made a massive difference. The engine runs very smothly and the cold enginge rattle has dissapeared completely, even in below zero temperatures.

      The moral of the story is, that forums like these can help everyone identify inherrent design faults and if you can demostrate goodwill as a customer than you can have them adressed by the manufacturer.

      Thanks to everyone on PradoPoint. Good luck if anyone else out there makes a claim.

      Revhead
      Revhead
      2007 D4D, Auto, Charcoal, Toyota Alloy Bar, Safari Snorkel, Cooper ST Max, Lightforce Genisis 210 Halogen Driving Lights, Rhino Aero Bars, Super-RV Side Awning. Needs a lift!!!

      Comment


      • #3
        Stats on injector problems with the 1KD-FTV.

        Hi Skywalkerrun, interesting post of yours and well done to be able to replace the injectors yourself, just a question if i may, did you also replace the injector pipes as well as allegedly they are single use although i would imagine most mechanics would not bother to replace so long as the mileage was not overly high.

        Regards

        Wazza (frederick)
        Last edited by frederick; 20-01-2012, 03:23 PM. Reason: spell check

        Comment


        • #4
          Stats On Injector Problems With The 1KD-FTV

          Gday frederick

          Quote: "did you also replace the injector pipes as well as allegedly they are single use"

          Answer: "No" i did not replace the injector pipes! I did replace all of the injector return-line washers (Aluminum x 5), 4 x copper washers replaced to aluminum, and the new o-rings that come with the new injectors. (Note: if injector secure bolt & bracket is torqued down properly and/or is not crossed threaded the injector will "not" break-free and punch a hole in rocker-cover!) .... May i also add that "if" the injectors are of a genuine brand new (NEVER USED) the 15 digit calibration code will be etched on the top of the injector. "If" the 15 digit code is on a sticker then the injectors are of old injectors that have been re-furbished then re-coded. (Hence cheaper).

          I beleave the injector pipes to be fine as they are of a thick steel. I was also careful to not stress/twist the pipes on removal or installation as that may cause stressing of the pipes to fracture @ 20,000psi.

          Some may argue (@ approx $150 per pipe x 4) that they wear internally due to the high press! (This "may" be true but to what extent?) One could also apply the high pressure wear debate to the high press fuel pump/ common rail/ Injectors and Fuel Rail Relief Return Valve etc as they are "all" exposed to the same high press friction.... Do the latter get changed on the injector change or would they rather wait for a malfunction first? (I think so!). What if hypothetically a new injector pipe was stressed on the installation? Would it fracture? At what interval would Toyota recommend a fuel line change on a high pressure wear as appose to a mechanic not Removing or replacing the fuel lines properly? (NOTE: "All" 4 x injector pipes have to be removed inorder to install "ONE" faulty injector so that would mean that all 4 x injector pipes have to be replaced inorder to replace the "ONE" faulty injector). Do they also change the cam-cover gsk and the 4 x top seals on the cam-cover for the injectors when changing the "ONE" faulty injector? Mmmmmm?

          As a dealership may have a valid argument but at what level do you draw a realistic line to the cost of maintenance! ... Is the decisions in replacing parts made in the customers interest or is it more about pulling more profit on parts to cover there labour?....

          Who's idea was it to change "ONE" (Maybe two) out of range injectors when it should be all four as they "ALL" have similar wear???? This is Toyota saving in one hand then going full anal on parts when past onto the customer in the other hand?

          Maybe not many people are aware of the fact that when they buy a new car the capped service price is already factored into the buying price of the car! So when they think they are getting a cool deal on there capped service they are not aware of the fact that they have already paid full price for there capped service!

          I also did not change the rocker-cover (Cam-cover) gasket or the rocker-cover seals where the injector passes through the rocker cover as they also was fine and still do not leak or weep oil... If they had of gone hard or cracked i would have replaced them!

          If there is an experienced mechanic/technician (Every workshop has one) at hand with there experienced knowledge they should be able to d-picked the decision on a visual glance on weather to replace or re-fit.

          I am aware that "Someone" will come right back at me for my assumptions but is it not true that you get flanked with smoke screens on faulty injectors then "AFTER" your warranty is over they tell you (TRUE DIPLOMAT) to go to hell in such a way that you actually look forward to paying them money? LMAO. (WOW..... half price labor!!!!) "THANKS TOYOTA" It is an absolute coincidence that "ALL" injectors "ARE" with-in range whilst in warranty??????? ..... GO-FIGURE!!!

          Cheers

          Comment


          • #5
            When I did mine, it was generally accepted in the industry that the pipes do not need to be replaced. As long as measures are taken to ensure that not no crap gets in to the system and that everything is torqued up correctly.

            I replaced one injector, all of the aluminium washers on the return side, all 4 injector seats and o'rings. I aslo replaced the 4 rocker seals, as they were only $4.50 each.
            2008 Diesel Prado with extra stuff added. I drive it on the road and other places too.

            Comment


            • #6
              Stats On Injector Problems With The 1KD-FTV

              Thanks Skywalkerrun, as always you are right on the money and a really straight shooter and yes you tell it like it is as always. As you may have noticed from the Roos thread i am in the process off getting my injectors ranges checked to see if they require repair, replacing or whatever at my ks (175k) best to check as suggested by the Roo.
              Roo, i was unable to get the local toyota dealership to undertake this procedure however they gave me the local Diesel injector specialist who apparently undertake these tests for toyota so car is booked in for Monday morning so once i have the figures i will call you to discuss.
              Special beers and not xxxx???? Crownies ok?

              I will be in touch.

              Wazza (frederick)

              Comment


              • #7
                Gidday Roo, as mentioned had the injector ranges checked today and results are as follows with the ranges between +0.3-+1.0 so what does this mean?? is it good,ok or rip the buggars out and where do we go from here.

                There were no ECU fault codes evident.

                Cheers
                Wazza (frederick)

                Comment


                • #8
                  Stats on injector problems with the 1KD-FTV.

                  Gents, while getting the injector ranges checked i also got a quote to replace all 4 injectors with new denso ones out of the box including new fuel lines ( the shop would not install injectors without the new lines) so brake down of quote is as follows;
                  These are apparently the later series injectors. Quote seems reasonable to me considering the other prices i have seen in some of the threads. What do you guys think???


                  Denso injectors $430 each = $470 inclusive x 4
                  Parts Fuel lines, washers etc = $630 inclusive
                  Labour =$$600
                  Total cost =$3200.00 inclusive

                  cheers wazza (frederick)

                  Comment


                  • #9
                    Hi All,

                    I also had my injectors replaced, 05` UK spec 1kd landcruiser.
                    Initially my car was very noise on cold starts and eventually the noise got worse and there was evident lack in power, but no warning lights were on.
                    Two injectors were outside the limits +6 and +8, the other two were fine but i replaced them all anyways with the newer 2 step models.
                    Toyota limits are -3.0 to +3.0 on cold engine, anything outside that range would indicate problem with the injector.

                    I purchased my injectors directly from denso, slightly cheaper then toyota.

                    Regards the injectors pipes, toyota does recommend replacment as the head on the nipple wears apparently, but my local denso dealer said they get them cleaned with ultrasonic machine and they are fine that way.

                    thanks
                    Last edited by xpro; 28-01-2012, 06:57 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #10
                      Originally posted by frederick View Post
                      Gidday Roo, as mentioned had the injector ranges checked today and results are as follows with the ranges between +0.3-+1.0 so what does this mean?? is it good,ok or rip the buggars out and where do we go from here.

                      There were no ECU fault codes evident.

                      Cheers
                      Wazza (frederick)

                      Hi,
                      was this tested on cold or hot engine? your readings are well with in the limits anyways, providing they were tested on cold engine.
                      The injection feedback value always gets better when the engine is warm, so the readings might not be as acurate.
                      cheers
                      Last edited by xpro; 28-01-2012, 06:57 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #11
                        Hi Xpro, injector range test was on cold engine. By the way how much do you pay per injector direct from Denso?

                        Regards

                        Frederick

                        Comment


                        • #12
                          Gday frederick

                          You said Quote: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post328000

                          Answer: Considering that it cost me personally $2,882 "without" 4 x new pipes/ Labor/ Cam-cover gsk/ cam-cover injector seals, i reckon your quote ($3200) sounds cheap! (Maybe i got ripped off but i don't think so!).

                          Just make sure that the injectors that you was quoted for "ARE" Brand new "Never-used" as the reconditioned ones also come in a sealed package in a box and are also Denso!!! Mine "are" the latest generation (EG: 4DC-***** (Not the same as the originals that i took out).

                          If the original 15 digit calibration code is scratched out and replaced with a sticker then they 'ARE" re-furbished.

                          Just remember this! If there is 5,000 injectors replaced with "Brand-NEW" Never used! then there is 5,000 re-furbished floating on the market waiting to be bought at a fraction of the cost of "BRAND NEW".

                          Cheers

                          PS. We are so off topic of the original thread!.."Stats On Injector Problems With The 1KD-FTV"

                          Comment


                          • #13
                            Hi Federick,

                            The Denso injectors were costing me 320 euros each which is around 400$, and the pipes were around 70$ each, plus a few quid for gaskets. And labour was covered by myself
                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • #14
                              Hi guys, thanks for the info and i was assured that the injectors were "new" but i will check and ask to see them as i am considering taking the option and having them replaced as this will give me peace of mind as well as 4 spare injectors and fuel lines in case i have problems in the future.

                              Regards

                              Wazza (Frederick)

                              Comment


                              • #15
                                Stats On Injector Problems With The 1KD-FTV

                                Hi Guys, yes you are right shywalkerrun, we are way off topic so my apologies to all and rightly my posts should be removed.

                                If i go ahead with the injextor changover i will place the details in this thread.

                                Regards

                                Wazza ( frederick)

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