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2007 petrol 6 speed won't start .. also posted in general discussion

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  • 2007 petrol 6 speed won't start .. also posted in general discussion

    I'm cross posting in this section as I'm not getting any response in the general forum, and perhaps I should have posted here?? Copy of post follows .....

    My 2007 120 series petrol 6 speed would not start yesterday after numerous attempts. Previous day ran with no problems and has done for a long time, although have had this exact same no start situation a few times in the last 2 to 3 years.

    Occurs first start of the day and would seem it might?? be ignition related as I could smell minor unburnt fuel smell at the tailpipe, after multiple starting attempts yesterday. All fuses OK, tank half full, regularly serviced, and on several occasions after such an event I've had my mechanic check, and there have been no stored codes. Suspected that temp sensor may be the issue, so replaced that last year.

    Any suggestions on likely/common failure items? I got the car at 160,000 km and its done 271,000 now - mainly highway but some light 4WD for my work getting to buildings and buildings sites in more remote areas. I'm going to keep the car and just keep running up the k's and keep it in good condition.

    I'm thinking of just replacing the fuel pump, and maybe O2 sensors, as a preventative maintenance measure - any other suggested items which are common failure/maintenance items worth replacing considering the km's. I'd rather do some preventative maintenance replacement now, than wait for vital items to fail and be stranded.

    Thanks for any help you can offer
    Dave

  • #2
    Needs more information.. I had issues when my starter was on way out and not cranking hard enough it wouldn't start.. Replaced starter, issue gone.. Starter/ clock spring and 02 will all ultimately need replacing in a 120 series soon. Cheap from amayama or partsouq. (I also can't see how a temp sensor can cause a starting issue...)

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your reply. I can rule out the battery, alternator and starter. Brand new Bosch battery six months ago, starter replaced about 8 months ago, alternator/charging OK, and have checked and had a trickle charger on battery to be sure.

      The issue is intermittent ... when it won't start I can crank multiple times and no go ... have another go an hour later and it'll fire up and run/drive perfectly.

      I've tried my spare key to rule out the key head not deactivating the immobiliser, but that didn't alter things.

      When I replaced the temp sensor it was mainly to fix a running hesitation when cold, which I thought may have also had some responsibility for cold starting problem if it was telling the ECU it was hot. This is the first time I've had the no start issue since then.

      Comment


      • #4
        It sounds like a fuel pump problem, if the ignition was cutting out, it should play up when hot as well .
        Ask your mechanic to check if the fuel pump goes to sleep when cold.
        Very common with in tank pumps.
        Best of luck.

        Mr Reliable.

        ​​​​

        Comment


        • #5
          It's been fine since I posted last, and now it won't start again ... of course it has to be holiday time. Tried engine start spray while cranking and I can get it running, which proves it's fuel supply. Haven't tried for two days now, but suspect it's now not intermittent, which will make diagnosis easier.

          Seems highly likely it's the fuel pump. I recall when doing some rear wiring that there is an access opening, to either the sender or sender/pump, under the rear seat on the passenger side.

          Question: Does that opening give access to remove the fuel pump, or does the tank have to be dropped?

          Comment


          • #6
            I had very similar systems with an 80 series petrol years ago.It turned out to be the in tank fuel pump. Yes I think that you get to it via the access opening if it is the same as the 80. While someone cranks the starter over bash the fuel tank with a lump of wood or heavy spanner. if it fires up there is your problem. Check ebay usa for fuel pumps I got one from a supplier in California for $50 US when Toyota here wanted $700.Someone on here may suggest a different source. Don't rule out Repco etc. There is possibly an intankt filter in there as well which could be a source of the problem but my bet is a dud fuel pump at that km.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for your reply 404pug. Tried thumping the tank to get some life in the pump, and confirm its demise, but no go. Seems highly likely its the pump, and I'll also replace filters.

              I also got a price from Toyota and couldn't believe what they quoted, so will be going aftermarket. Any suggestions on aftermarket suppliers welcome.

              Comment


              • #8
                Can anyone help with advice on draining the main tank. I've confirmed that the intank pump/sender assembly will not be able to removed through the inspection hole in the floor above, which only allows access to the top connections, so i need to drop the tank. There is no drain plug on the side or bottom that I can see, so need advice on how to remove almost full main tank petrol,

                Comment


                • #9
                  Are you sure it wont come out through the inspection hole? I think that this IS the main access and just needs a bit of maneuvering to come out.Someone on here will know for sure. Are there not a few 10 mm bolts around those connectors which will allow the pump to come out?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Job done. The pump/sender assembly, has a diameter which is way bigger than the access cover opening in the floor above, and means that to do any work on the sender or pump you have to remove the tank ... or you could take an axe to the floor Design fail Toyota!!!! You should be able to remove that assembly without all the drama of dropping the tank. The cover plate under the LR seat only allows access to the pump/sender connection, which you must unplug before you drop the tank, as it has no slack.There is a drain plug on the rear secondary tank, but there isn't one on the main tank ... another design stuff up IMO.

                    I did the following:

                    1. Removed the main tank bash cover. Beat the dents out of it, and resprayed in sub frame black.
                    2. Drained the rear tank using the drain plug.
                    3. Impossible to siphon main tank through filler, as rubber connector and non return valve at tank obstructed access. Disconnected rubber connector between fill line and main tank, where it connects to main hard fill line. Was able to feed siphon tube through that short rubber section, past the swing check valve, and into the tank. 80 litres later there was only about ten litres left, which made it manageable to drop the tank.
                    4. Put a trolley jack under the front and the rear of the tank to provide support while removing the tank support straps.
                    5. Removed the outer tank strap bolts, then removed the inner hinge pins, and removed the tank straps.
                    6. Lowered the tank about 200 - 250 mm to allow better access the tank vent, which was an absolute bastage to get off, then disconnected the two fuel lines at the front of the tank, and the two above the tailshaft.
                    7. Dropped the tank and removed the pump/sender assembly. Rather than risk cracking the lock ring, I put two screws into a 600mm bit of wood at a distance apart to engage with the locking ring ribs. Then emptied the tank completely (it was clean)
                    8. Pump was the original (272,000 km) and when bench tested ran, but when connected again it didn't ... which explains the intermittent failures.
                    9. Used Dow Corning O-ring grease on all O-rings and fuel connections, which made them a breeze to re-assemble without galling the O-rings.
                    10. Reassembled, but left bash plate off so I could more easily check for leaks
                    10. Fitted new under bonnet fuel filter.
                    10. Put 20 litres of fuel in, took one no start to prime, second crank it started and ran like a dream. Had fire extinguisher and hose at the ready just in case.
                    11. All good, so took for a drive.
                    12. Put 100 litres in to double check all connections leak free, then once satisfied no leaks, refitted bash plate.

                    I don't go off the beaten track much anymore, but if I did, I would definitely cut a larger access opening in the floor above, and make a new cover, to allow access to the pump and sender. Doing what I had to do to replace the pump is ridiculous, and would be a nightmare out the back of nowhere. Being able to remove that assembly from above would also allow the tank to be emptied and inspected from that same access at the top of the tank.
                    Dave Prado
                    Lurker
                    Last edited by Dave Prado; 05-01-2019, 12:02 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well done! A pair of metal snips will be added to the remote area tool kit to allow surgery on that hole! On an 80 series the hole was definitely big enough. A simple mod. for all of us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There maybe variations between diesel and petrol, and between models, but here is an exploded diagram of the very large (in diameter, and the depth of the tank high) assembly you have to get out of the tank, which you then have to pull apart to replace the pump. I didn't measure the top plate, but it's probably about140 mm. and the hole in the floor is about 100mm.

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