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Grande TEMS replacement - KYB? or custom Bilsteins

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  • Grande TEMS replacement - KYB? or custom Bilsteins

    Long time lurker.... first time poster.

    I recently joined the club and got a 2005 Grande V6 with 175K on the clock.
    Was a city car only, but for me it will be an off-road vehicle mostly.

    Suspension needs replacing.
    Airbags seems to be leaking as the compressor goes every morning AND it ends op on the bump stops during rough terrain which really make for unnerving handling going downhill etc.
    Lots of body roll as well so guessing the shocks are done for...even though they seems to respond to the ride settings and there are no leaks.

    So.....
    Getting original Toyota TEMS shock doesn't seem to be an option with partsouq not having stock for both front and rear plus quite expensive too.

    I have read heaps of the suspension post and I cannot recall a single post mentioning the KYB OE replacement parts to replace the TEMS.
    They are electronically adjustable shocks made to be an OE replacement.

    7410000
    7440002

    Automotive Superstore ~$1644
    Sparesbox ~$1830
    Partouq $857 delivered


    Edit: above price was updated from first post, I thought the store was selling them in pairs but they just had crazy prices for 1...lol.
    Partsouq also did not have stock when I was buying, they have plenty now, so you may need to wait and things change
    Surprisingly I was able to buy the TEMS shocks directly from Toyota for A$932 all up! happiness...


    A local fitter, Garage76 in Canberra, was quite firm in his opinion that I would better off by getting some custom Bilstein's that has been valved to match the Airbags.
    He claims he has "been down this road".... now unfortunately they are quite busy so I didn't feel like asking him to explain further.

    Now I have a custom Bilstein suspension in my modified 3.0R outback... it's very nice. I'm sure the Bilstein's would be great in the Prado as well.
    But I just cannot see how standard shocks that does not have electronic semi-active adjustment could deal as well with different situations as the TEMS...unless TEMS really are just rubbish.

    Excerpt from presser.

    The TEMS hardware includes two-stage dampers, with soft and hard damping force valves.

    There are nine different control modes in the second-generation TEMS system.

    Non-linear H infinity control: changes the damping force to a target value according to the road surface and driving conditions.

    Thumping sensitive control: prevents an increase in damping force when (smooth) road conditions mean no damping force is required.

    Unsprung vibration control: if unsprung resonance is detected, this function controls damping force so it will not decrease below a certain level.

    Imaginary roll damper control: changes damping force to control vehicle posture (minimize body roll) during cornering.

    Anti-dive control: increases damping force during braking to optimize stability and controllability.

    Anti-squat control: increases damping force during acceleration to minimize changes in body posture.

    High-speed control: varies the range of damping force according to vehicle speed, to provide the best combination of comfortable ride and driving stability.

    There are a few unknowns to me.....
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    1. Would new TEMS shocks really make a huge difference over my 180k shocks..... some posts here has suggested that it does.
    2. Would the KYB be equivalent to the Toyota TEMS....KYB claims so after speaking to them on the phone.
    3. Is the TEMS really just a gimmick and a custom valved Bilstein would just overall perform better..... as my local installer claims.

    I don't intend to do a lift.
    If I do change the front coils I would be after 20mm only to end up around 760mm at the front and 790-800mm rear.
    The accessories I intend to fit in front will be most likely an ECB alloy bar ( adds 27kg ), winch ( ~24Kg ) and bash plates.

    Now it could be that adding that extra weight and then fitting a different springrate coil in the front would necessitate fitting appropriately valve struts.... or would OE still be fine...
    Last edited by Chicane; 03-05-2021, 01:11 PM.

  • #2
    Hi I have Grande 07 V6 @ 166k kms and did lots of research and kept the TEMS system, I put springs in the front new TEMS shocks and new Toyota Air bags in the back (previous owner just fitted rear shock) and lifted back to match front 45mm, I put on 265/70/17 tyres for clearance.
    1. Putting in front new TEMS Shocks + springs made a huge difference on front end and removed the roley poley feel. The TEMS units are awesome on road and even up to moderate off road as you can change from soft to hard depending on corrugations on lower and lift the back end when needed ( handy in the sand) hard core 4WD and beating up panels is not my scene.
    There is lots of people who replace them with other gear for hardcore 4 wheeling, I kept mine for the safety they provide, hitting brakes hard they automatically stiffen up, going around a corner/swerving they adjust, get out of the car it lowers the rear end (kneels) automatically and the best part is when you laod it up with people/caravan/load it automatically keeps your ride height for safer towing/braking. Look around for the shocks/airbags Partsouq is a good site there are more though, do not rush in as really the cheapest brandX lift kit will be about the price of the actual toyota parts, I fitted them myself the instructions are all on here.
    2. TEMS is toyota patents and KYB may make them.
    3. TEMS is a gimmick that works, they still include it on high spec Prados, It has a servo motor that adjust the Rebound automatically on the shocks depending on conditions and your selection of comfort to sport. If the kit was available to buy off the shelf everyone would be fitting it, while custom valved Bilsteins would be good for there custom range they are fixed in that range TEMS is adjustable selectively and dynamically depending on conditions with ecu to work with ESC ATRAC etc that grande comes with.
    I put on of the lower "lift" springs in the front and adjust rear air bags to suit (instruction on site somewhere using washers as shims) other who ride in car say their lift kit feel like either 2 to 3 on the selector.
    Anyways good luck and PM if you need more info.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hobes
      Junior Member
      Hobes Thanks.

      In the end I bought Toyota Original TEMS shocks from the parts warehouse for A$932 all up! ... yep front and rear pair....
      Way cheaper than I could get it from either Amayama or Partsouq and no worries about import duties.

      At the time Partsouq did not have stock of the KYB branded TEMS shocks but right now you can buy a full set for A$857 delivered.

      Regarding your response, it all makes sense to me and aligns to my thoughts on this, I agree that in theory the TEMS system will work better in a range of conditions even though some custom setup may be better in very specific areas.
      That is before you take into account the anti-squat, anti-heal etc etc features that come with the TEMS shock and how it monitors the current driving conditions in addition to the driver input selector.
      I'm unlikely to do very extreme off roading in this vehicle trying to squeeze every last bit of lift and articulation out of it... so until I find myself regularly in situations where this is a limiting factor I won't worry about it and work on my driving skill first....

      From your other posts I gather the front spring you fitted was the C59-300 ( 385mm free lenght, 586 lb/in ) which is a longer spring but the same spring rate as factory.
      As I have it you should get a longer spring for lift.... and a stronger spring for weight.

      I still need to decided which spring to use since I still have to fit my accessories
      "ECB alloy bar ( adds 27kg ), winch ( ~24Kg ) and bash plates."

      I want to have a stronger spring rate to offset the extra weight but don't want too much extra lift and want to be at ~760mm front.
      I could maybe fit the diesel spring... but not sure that the extra 30 lb/in spring rate would be enough...
      Some options are
      Front Coil Free length Spring rate
      Petrol 120 370 580/585
      Dob C59-300 385 586
      Diesel 120 370 620
      King KTFS-101 355 660
      King KTFR-101 375 660
      Since you fitted the C59-300 AND the new TEMS at the same time it would be hard to know if the springs or the new shock made the difference.
      Seeing as the Dobinsons spring rate are very close to the factory spring rate I would reckon any difference would largely be coming from the new shocks.

      Yesterday I fitted new airbags and new rear shocks..... and that really stiffened up the rear massively from before....
      Hard to know if it was the bags or the shocks, but I'll reckon it was the new shocks.

      I'm trying to decide if I'll just fit the new front shocks or do the spring at same time..... will see.
      Last edited by Chicane; 03-05-2021, 01:13 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        I did put in the Springs and Shock in the front at the same time, I do have Sovereign Bar and 9inch Lightforce spotties fitted, some weight, It feels great for me and that floaty feeling I had before the upgrades is completely gone and I would not want to go heavier springs as it seems balanced with rear set up, I had a lot of input from a few PradoPointers here and they both came up with same spring, I brought springs locally at Malaga and fitted with instructions on here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks
          Hobes
          Junior Member
          Hobes
          Yes, it seems reasonable that with only the Sovereign bar and spotties you would not want to have an increase spring rate.
          Also as you stated, you would not want to mismatch the front and rear.

          I'll be fitting the new TEMS front struts this weekend and I expect that to do the trick even without new springs.

          Going forward I would however need spring with the extra weight.

          Ideally I would find a spring that bring the front to around ~760 with the extra 70Kg in the front.
          Doing the sensor adjustment in the rear ~800... the rear goes higher because of increased pressure in the bags which should to some degree offset any increased springrate in the front....

          However.... the best option to achieve this seem to be to fit the diesel front coils to the petrol seeing as the diesel has a springrate of 620 lb/in which possibly was done to offset the extra weight in the diesel in the front.

          The other springs seems wrong for my application.

          The Dobinsons is just longer but has the same spring rate.
          The King raised will raise the car too much and the spring rate is maybe too high for the weight and OEM TEMS shocks.
          The Kings standard spring is 20mm shorter than the OEM spring and then a too high spring rate for the weight OEM TEMS shock.

          So the inbetween diesel seems like a good idea. OEM lenght with slightly higher rate.

          Wonder if anyone ever done that?

          Comment


          • #6
            Chicane When you say you got the tems shocks from parts warehouse do you have a website I am looking at replacement options now for our prado and want to stick with them if possible

            thanks Rolf

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hassro View Post
              Chicane When you say you got the tems shocks from parts warehouse do you have a website I am looking at replacement options now for our prado and want to stick with them if possible

              thanks Rolf
              Sorry Rolf, for only responding now.
              This was just from the local Toyota parts supplier in Canberra. Janrule.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chicane View Post
                Thanks
                Hobes
                Junior Member
                Hobes
                Yes, it seems reasonable that with only the Sovereign bar and spotties you would not want to have an increase spring rate.
                Also as you stated, you would not want to mismatch the front and rear.

                I'll be fitting the new TEMS front struts this weekend and I expect that to do the trick even without new springs.

                Going forward I would however need spring with the extra weight.

                Ideally I would find a spring that bring the front to around ~760 with the extra 70Kg in the front.
                Doing the sensor adjustment in the rear ~800... the rear goes higher because of increased pressure in the bags which should to some degree offset any increased springrate in the front....

                However.... the best option to achieve this seem to be to fit the diesel front coils to the petrol seeing as the diesel has a springrate of 620 lb/in which possibly was done to offset the extra weight in the diesel in the front.

                The other springs seems wrong for my application.

                The Dobinsons is just longer but has the same spring rate.
                The King raised will raise the car too much and the spring rate is maybe too high for the weight and OEM TEMS shocks.
                The Kings standard spring is 20mm shorter than the OEM spring and then a too high spring rate for the weight OEM TEMS shock.

                So the inbetween diesel seems like a good idea. OEM lenght with slightly higher rate.

                Wonder if anyone ever done that?

                Finally found and ordered a suitable spring.

                KHFR-168HT 375mm 580/660Lb/in ( progressive rate )

                This is hopefully going to work perfectly with the TEMS shocks / rear airbags and the extra weight on the front.
                The free lenght and progressive spring rate seems to be the goldilocks solution not available with other options.

                Ordered. Time will tell.

                Comment

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