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Recovery points on 2021 Kakadu standard bumber

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  • Recovery points on 2021 Kakadu standard bumber

    I recently purchased a 2021 Kakadu and want to install front recovery points. ARB, Ironman etc have said that there are none available for this car with the factory bumper bar. Does anyone know who/where I can get a set from if they are on the market as yet? Any points in the right direction would be appreciated.

  • #2
    Interesting question. A week or two ago I took my new bar-less 2021 Kakadu out to a local 4WD club training day. I asked the more experienced members about whether two loops I had noticed at the front of the car could be used as recovery points. They're quite low at the front, just inboard of the front wheels. After a careful inspection their view was yes, provided you used both, which would mean using a "bridle strap" for recovery.

    It's not at all clear that they were intended as recovery points, perhaps they were intended as tie-down points, but they look sturdy enough and that plus the way that they're attached to the chassis led the club members to conclude that they could be so used.

    Has anyone else noticed these loops? Anyone care to agree / disagree with these 4WD club members? This is my first Prado and so I don't know which models and variants have / had them.
    Last edited by gunda; 17-08-2021, 01:02 PM. Reason: 2021, not 20201

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    • #3
      Thanks for that info, I will have a look at them. If suitable definitely will utilise the two points for any recovery.

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      • #4
        In your conversations with ARB etc, did they indicate whether this is yet another of those restrictions that is Kakadu-specific, or applies to all current variants?

        I ask because elsewhere on PP this morning there is a current continuation of an older thread where people are fitting recovery points to earlier Prados, one was a 2015 with only a Toyota nudge bad, the other doesn't mention a bar or not.

        https://www.pradopoint.com.au/forum/...398#post759398

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        • #5
          I'll try and answer my own questions. The ARB price list doesn't mention any Kakadu specific exclusions. For the post 10/2017 150 series it says "Not suitable for fitment with OE bumper".

          For the 10/2009 to 09/2017 150 series it says "Confirmed suitability to OE front bumper or ARB bar only", but there are a few other caveats as well, including "Examination of vehicle should be undertaken prior to fitment as variances between different build dates affect fitment suitability".

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          • #6
            The conversation was very brief with 'sorry, cant help with that model'.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Skaysie View Post
              The conversation was very brief with 'sorry, cant help with that model'.
              Sounds like the sort of dismissive response I get from my local ARB, although to be fair, in this particular instance what more is there to say? If it don't fit it don't fit.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Skaysie View Post
                I recently purchased a 2021 Kakadu and want to install front recovery points. ARB, Ironman etc have said that there are none available for this car with the factory bumper bar. Does anyone know who/where I can get a set from if they are on the market as yet? Any points in the right direction would be appreciated.
                I have a pair of ‘Roadsafe’ RP-PRA150 recovery points fitted to my 2021 Kakadu with the factory bumper. The 4WD SHED in Bayswater, Victoria currently advertise them for $118 a pair plus postage. I paid 1 hour labour cost to have them fitted at my local off-road centre.

                https://roadsafe.com.au/wp-content/u...ment-Guide.pdf

                https://www.the4wdshed.com/recovery-...es-roadsafe4wd
                Last edited by Tow2go; 14-09-2021, 01:04 AM.

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                • #9
                  I did the full calculations on the two recovery hoops on the front of the Prado and from memory they are capable of withstanding somewhere around 4-6t each. I have never heard of a case of them failing.

                  The 'recovery plates' that are sold and bolted to the chassis rely on a bunch of pretty dubious assumptions. Firstly that the hole used to attached them are actually designed and rated for that purpose, I'd love to see the evidence. And that they are adequately clamped, the load carrying capacity relies on sufficient clamping force and friction between the mating surfaces.

                  In a nutshell the coloured bolt on recovery plates may look nice, but there is no solid engineering evidence to support that they are fit for purpose.
                  [B]Steve[/B]

                  2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by krypto View Post
                    I did the full calculations on the two recovery hoops on the front of the Prado and from memory they are capable of withstanding somewhere around 4-6t each. I have never heard of a case of them failing.

                    The 'recovery plates' that are sold and bolted to the chassis rely on a bunch of pretty dubious assumptions. Firstly that the hole used to attached them are actually designed and rated for that purpose, I'd love to see the evidence. And that they are adequately clamped, the load carrying capacity relies on sufficient clamping force and friction between the mating surfaces.

                    In a nutshell the coloured bolt on recovery plates may look nice, but there is no solid engineering evidence to support that they are fit for purpose.
                    Can I please ask a couple of questions of ignorance:

                    (i) can you detail the calculations that you did on the front tie-down / tow hoops that come standard on the current model Prado?

                    (ii) If these calculations are correct, then they should be rateable. Has this happened, and if not why not?

                    (iii) Have you seen the recent Club 4x4 blog article about the 20 things that you should never do in a 4WD recovery? #6 is never to use those tie down hoops?

                    https://www.club4x4.com.au/20-things...-4wd-recovery/

                    (iv) I was under the impression that the coloured recovery plates sold by ARB and the like are rated, including their method of attachment. Are you saying that they're not?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gunda View Post

                      Can I please ask a couple of questions of ignorance:

                      (i) can you detail the calculations that you did on the front tie-down / tow hoops that come standard on the current model Prado?

                      (ii) If these calculations are correct, then they should be rateable. Has this happened, and if not why not?

                      (iii) Have you seen the recent Club 4x4 blog article about the 20 things that you should never do in a 4WD recovery? #6 is never to use those tie down hoops?

                      https://www.club4x4.com.au/20-things...-4wd-recovery/

                      (iv) I was under the impression that the coloured recovery plates sold by ARB and the like are rated, including their method of attachment. Are you saying that they're not?
                      Below is my original post on this topic, answering your questions. I'm still waiting for someone to produce the full calculations for the rated bolt on recovery points including the attachment method. Regarding point 3, I can't find any information on what Aaron based his advise in the 4x4 blog, it seems to be an opinion?

                      There has been a lot of discussion over the years about rated recovery points. Plates with a SWL or WLL stamp are often taken to be safe for the rated capacity.

                      These plates are only as good as what they are attached to, and importantly how they are attached. I can find no information on the design of the holes in the chassis that are used to bolt on the recovery points, and whether they were designed for this purpose

                      Just as important is the method of attachment. When designing plates to bolt together to take a load in shear, the friction of the joint is an important factor. The joint should be designed to create sufficient clamping force so that the bolts create a friction joint and don't just take a shear load as is the case for most recovery points. And using 'high tensile' bolts doesn't do away with the need to use them correctly. They are designed to be high tensile in tension, clamping a joint together. They are not designed specifically for shear loads as they are often used when attaching a recovery point. Anyway I could go on, but I'd love to see some science to the rating of recovery points.

                      The 'tie down points' as they are often called and which come on the vehicle from the factory are actually engineered by the manufacturer to take loads. Take a close look and you will see that they are not some flimsy bits of metal, not on the Prado anyway.

                      I decided to do some quick calcs on the 'tie down points'. If there are any welding experts please let me know if I got this wrong.

                      Each u-shaped 'tie down' is 16mm diameter and has 4 full circumference fillet welds holding it in place. That gives 5cm for each weld x 4 is a total of 20cm = 7.9 inches of weld for the u shaped tie down. The fillet welds look to be about 8mm but lets round that down to 6mm (1/4inch) for safety. Rule of thumb says that 1/4 inch weld can hold 1t / inch (a conservative number backed by some complicated welding theory).

                      So that gives a theoretical static rating of 8t for each 'tie down point'. Let the flood gates open.... And by my calcs the 16mm bar should be good for about 10t, so the welds should fail first.

                      edit : Can someone point me to information on failure of the existing tow loops?
                      Last edited by krypto; 15-09-2021, 02:32 PM.
                      [B]Steve[/B]

                      2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

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                      • #12
                        John can be a bit over the top, but this is a great video explaining the science of high tensile bolted joints, which is what all the aftermarket recovery points rely on. He posted it after a number of chassis failures at towbar attachment points

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaWqB09RHBk
                        [B]Steve[/B]

                        2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Accidental post
                          Last edited by krypto; 16-09-2021, 05:27 PM.
                          [B]Steve[/B]

                          2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by krypto View Post
                            edit : Can someone point me to information on failure of the existing tow loops?[/I]
                            Not I. Shortly after I took delivery of my Prado I took it to a meet of a local 4WD club and asked about whether those hoops could be used for recovery. From an inspection less detailed that yours they said they'd be prepared to, provided a bridle strap was used. And yet everything one reads from seemingly informed, experienced commentators says most definitely not to. What to believe? I probably won't use them, unless someone can get them rated.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gunda View Post

                              Not I. Shortly after I took delivery of my Prado I took it to a meet of a local 4WD club and asked about whether those hoops could be used for recovery. From an inspection less detailed that yours they said they'd be prepared to, provided a bridle strap was used. And yet everything one reads from seemingly informed, experienced commentators says most definitely not to. What to believe? I probably won't use them, unless someone can get them rated.
                              My calculations are based in science, I'm a mechanical engineer, those numbers for the existing loops are factual. I did them when I was considering adding recovery points. I'd like someone to show me the full rational and calculations for the aftermarket recovery points. I'm not anti-mods, I have lots of them on my Prado, but this is a serious safety issue and it can't just rely on opinion.
                              [B]Steve[/B]

                              2010 Silver GXL Prado 150, D4D Auto, with a few non standard bits

                              Comment

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