High Current Alternator options for 1KD-FTV engine

[Greasemonkey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Greasemonkey]

Reading some of the alternator feeds and I'm getting nervous. I had somewhat imagined that the 150 series Prado would have a higher rated alternator than my previous 90 series. Well the 90 series alternator lasted 230.000kms so all good. I think it would have lasted a lot longer if I hadn't set out trying to get more charge into the secondary battery. You could observe the voltage droop as system load and under bonnet temperature increased, in a way it appeared self regulating. Just after engine start it would sit around 14.3V, then could go as low as 13.6V. At 230 000km I swapped over to a 20A DC to DC charger for the secondary battery and I think it stressed the alternator out especially when driving with high beams and driving lights. In the end two diodes failed and I moved to an aftermarket replacement as I couldn't get a diode bridge for the Denso and Toyota quoted 6 to 8 weeks for a new complete alternator. The aftermarked alternator held 14.4V hard and lasted two weekend camping trips, then regulator failed and voltage went high, but luckily no over voltage damage to anything. Got a replacement under warranty and shortly after found a Prado 150 I really liked and traded up. I'm yet again make all the same observation that the DC to DC secondary charger really sucks the energy out of the alternator, the voltage drooping doesn't help, the charger will draw just even more current. Add to this another DC to DC unit in the caravan that we now have and one will understand some concern on my side now. After a couple of days camping you could have a combined capacity of some 200Ah that will demand charging through two DC to DC chargers, and that setting off into a hot day with aircon running creating high under bonnet temperatures. I'm not a believer of reducing the alternator sense voltage feedback with a diode, it is in my opinion interfering with the self regulating droop that would work with a standard car. All is still working on the 150, but what options do we have in Australia? I can find mainly two aftermarket drop ins, but based on the experiences made with one that was readily available for the old Prado I'm not so confident doing the same on the 150. Highest capacity seems to be 130A. This is still not great when dropping winching into the equation as that puts tremendous loads on an alternator when batteries start to go down. Diodes need to be quite robust. I have seen some high current (200A) mechanically compatible options available in the USA, but nothing locally.

Does anyone have experiences that they can share specifically in regards to reliable alternator upgrades? Did someone get something from overseas? Or just anticipate failure and take a spare? Quite dead weight to carry so, hence thinking overrated serviceable quality unit with adequate margins. I assume that one would also need to upgrade the main wire from the alternator and fuse-able link to the main battery terminal.

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Hard to believe nobody is sharing any experiences .... Did a test with the stock alternator with running both batteries down to 60% on purpose, then watching voltage trends going for a drive at only 20 degrees ambient. Alternator voltages falling quite quickly, obviously unit not holding voltages with the combined charge current loads, even without head lights or air conditioning on. Very little confidence for the longevity of this system adding the caravan demands and looking at a 40 degree day. If its not a caravan, what a people doing with winches? No chance for a quick recovery? What are people doing, what is working?

[JohnLynn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JohnLynn]

Unfortunately I have no experience of alternator issues on the Prado but plenty on marine engines. I have always assumed that a manufacturer would provide an alternator just capable of supplying the needs of the vehicle with perhaps only a little extra capacity. Accountants would not let the company over engineer anything? Hence the original alternator would struggle to cope with much extra load? The solution on boat engines where there is usually plenty of space (unlike the Prado) is to fit an extra one or two alternators leaving the original one just working as it was designed and a completely separate system for extras. I have found this much more practical than fitting converters especially as the engine is usually 24 volts and auxiliaries 12.
Sorry this doesn't help you as I doubt there would be room for a separate system.

[nudgebar Member Find all posts View Profile Close nudgebar]

Ive noticed the same thing , the twits at Toyota said its normal. So far ive taken it to Battery World who say they cant do much to increase the charge on a permanent basis ( Canbus control ) and even when they plugged in a scantool and maxed out the voltage the best they could do is make it pump out 13.9V which still sucks.
They said they can make a non temp compensating alternator fit , say from a Euro 4/5 or Aisan model 1GD but it would bring up unclearable fault codes.

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

i have a contact in the US for high output alternators , i will send him my alternator details and see what comes back

last year i got 180amp alternators for the Toyota 2JZGTE to replace their 90amp factory one

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nudgebar

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nudgebar I'm looking at the 1KD engine, not the new 1GD, different set-up. With the 1KD engines things are not that complicated, I just can't find a middle off the road upgrade solution. There are 130 and 160A units on the internet, but no real feedback and reviews I can find. And then there is an US based company with no distributor in Australia that seems to have top gear, but also top pricing and all the charges to get it here with a one off import. No idea how I can service such a unit here should ever something go wrong with it as all spare parts would need to come also by special import. The smallest direct mechanical replacement unit is a 250A rated. Hence OEM wiring loom including negative return needs massive upsizing plus an additional high current fuse box. A 160 to 180A unit would really be sufficient, but it must be super reliable. A warranty replacement unit back at the shop is of no help in remote areas.

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

spoke to my guy over there this morning
have sent him some pics , just need to do some measurements for him now
in the smaller size they they are thinking 180amps, but they are in the process of doing a full replacement for toyota's that can go upto 320amp

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

what he has worked out is our alternator is different to what he has access to, so he cant supply one that is a direct replacement
he said send me you alternators and they can re do them to around the 160 to 180amp

this would be too time consuming & expensive as there is the extra cost in sending it to him

he has also worked out that one of their race versions will be close
it would require a spacer for the top mount , and would most likely require a bit longer arm to move the bottom out slightly as it is bigger in diameter
with that fitted you can have up to 300amp if you wanted

just waiting to confirm what the price would be including shipping

cheers James

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

how much amperage would you guys be looking for ?
180amp, 200amp, 220amp, 250amp, 300amp?

this will determine the price

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Razorback81

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Razorback81 Thanks for all your investigation work, was hoping for a fairly commonly available solution available in Australia. One off private imports (unless available through fleabay) are quite expensive, especially if at some point you need some low value spares that also need to come by special order. I would think 180A is enough, main importance is that the unit is robust and can handle high under bonnet temperatures without aging too quickly. A direct mechanical fit is also needed as at some stage you may need to go back to a standard alternator in an unscheduled break down with the special one not available short term. Alternator an essential part of the Prado 150, engine doesn't run for long without it and there is no bush fix for it..

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

Greasemonkey
do you have solar on the car?
i run a 100w panel on the roof with an aftermarket alternator
i have the large front battery and 135amphr rear battery running through the redarc SB112 with the jump up diode in the fuse box (we see 14.3v)
we ran 2 Engels & a travel buddy for 6 weeks up in the cape (just got home Friday b4 bathurst)
never had any issues lowest i got to was 12.1V (running the freezer to -18) when planning a few days stop, i would drop the freezer to -8 as we went to bed and back up when the sun came up doing that kept it at 12.35V

as we had gear on the roof , now would look ar adding 1 more 100w panel, using 1 on the slope to the front window and then the other from that point to give room underneath for storage to make it better on the aero over the roof

as for the oversea's alternator , i hear what your saying, but once fitted they shouldn't give any grief (i have used these guys for year with race car gear)
if we can find some of the standard alternators and get them over and have them add their gear in it then it would be just a simple swap over
the lower bracket is the only thing that might need changing (as the alternator is a bit bigger in diameter) in may fit

i will put the 200amp at him to get the price and see what he comes up with

a bigger question is will it do anything to the car's electric's , i spoke with Redarc the other day and said what i had done and he said Goodluck hope the wiring doesn't play up as the computer controls the alternator , i couldnt get him to elaborate what it would do

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Razorback81

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Razorback81 I do have a fold up portable 100W panel for the car for bush trips. The caravan has two 140W panels fixed on the roof. All systems with MPPT controllers. Caravan is OK, but car freezer struggles when car is parked and I can't leave the windows open. Fridge (freezer) runs flat out all day and then of course aux battery is just about finished in the evening. At times I turn it off, rather than let it struggle, but then it will partially defrost. Go for a drive, ie back to camp after a day's outing, then the alternator will try to charge it. Go back at night and you will need the head lights, usually also high beams and LED bar (12A). The aux battery is charged via a BCDC1220. If the trip is short, the only way to get maximum charge in is to put the aux in parallel to the main battery, then when charge current goes below 20A switch over to the BCDC1220 to let it do the rest. Should the caravan be connected and it's batteries also low for some reason, then there is just no way the standard alternator does cope, or will in my opinion last. Putting in a diode in the voltage sense circuit boosts the regulated voltage, but if the demand is too high voltage still droops. Yes, if you fit a higher capacity alternator you will need to upgrade the wiring, both positive as well as return and introduce an appropriate cable protect fuse. It will be a lot of work to do this and needs to be done correctly, or you can indeed damage electronics and/or cause a cable fire.

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

what fridges are you running?
what's in the car?
what's in the van? if that is a 3 way fridge you should run it on Gas
how many batteries in the van ?
what is you auxiliary battery in the car? an AGM or combo battery?

what i found with portable panels is by the time you get there to set up there's less than 2hrs sun light left

our van runs 2 x 150w panels on the roof and a weaco 140L 12v fridge with 2 x 120amphr batteries with all the right controllers etc
i can leave that on and the panels keep it all topped up when free camping ( i actually don't have a connection from the car to the van to charge at all)

the 135amphr battery in the car will run the 2 fridges in the car (1 x 32L engel as a freezer @ -18deg 1 x 40L engel as a fridge @ 1deg) over night , when camped i did need to run the car for a bit but found if i dropped the freezer to -8 every thing stayed frozen and i still had good and the 100w panel on the roof held it up to a good charge (hence i am adding another 100w panel or i might change to a 150w panel

as far as the wiring in the Prado i think Redarc was referring to the canbus system not the wiring being damaged

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Razorback81

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Razorback81 The freezer in the car is a Trailblaza is a 18 year old version, compares today to a 40l unit with 75mm insulation. Van has a Dometic CRX100 in it. The solar panels are looking after the van OK with reasonable sunshine and ambient not being too hot. I do however use also a CPAP machine overnight, just on pressure, no heating or humidifier. And then we usually like to watch at times a DVD on a 22inch LCD. The van has two 120Ahr AGMs, charger is a DC to DC inverter based Enerdrive Epower40A unit. This unit reduces charge current depending on voltage drop on feed line, so with alternator drooping it "scales back to look after it". There is also some voltage drop on the feed line due too the long distance all the way from under the bonnet that I will need to fix. But real problem is really with the car freezer, in case I can't leave the windows down a bit or connect the portable panel. I also do have a winch that is mainly used to roll logs off tracks when on excursion and the unforeseen challenge. Once Prado based batteries are down, it's a struggle for the alternator to top them up again, even with cool weather and going down the highway with good under bonnet airflow. The voltage droop with or without diode is a concern to me.

[Razorback81 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Razorback81]

greasemonkey grab one of the jump diodes and try that first they were like $50