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  • #16
    Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
    I would describe my interest as fascination rather than obsession, being a cynical person I think that Toyota will do all they can to keep the issue from becoming too well known about and spend as little as possible to fix the issue. That is if they have worked out what is causing the problem which I doubt. This for me is the real curiosity, why does the 2.8 behave like this when other engines don't?
    My Prado is laid up for six months while I am in the UK, I have searched and asked here if anyone has encountered any problems but so far drawn a blank. So what is the difference between the Australian and European vehicles? apart from Euro 5/6 and the fact there are many more manual versions here.
    The Prado was my first Toyota and I must admit that I was surprised to have it tick over at 1200 rpm (manual) every 300 Kms or so. My poor opinion of the dealer was reinforced when they didn't seem to be sure why this was happening back in 2015. Then the ECU update was carried out, I asked what this did and received the reply that it "changes the parameters of the burn" my questions as to how it changes the burn went unanswered. I have read posts on here that when dealers investigate an issue they take a "snapshot" from Techstream which they send to Toyota who diagnose then send instructions as to what to do to fix the problem. This seems to keep Toyota's own staff in the dark let alone their customers.
    Is the EURO 6 the adblue/scr addition? Perhaps having the SCR means an EGR is no longer required and this may affect the level of exhaust gas return going through the DPF. Perhaps Euro6 is "cleaner" for the DPF.
    2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

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    • #17
      EURO 5 DPF
      EURO 6 DPF and SCR

      DPF eliminates Particals and this goes pre SCR,

      SCR reduces NOx and the gassed are treated after the DPF

      EGRs are still active on Euro 6 models

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rockhop View Post
        EURO 5 DPF
        EURO 6 DPF and SCR

        DPF eliminates Particals and this goes pre SCR,

        SCR reduces NOx and the gassed are treated after the DPF

        EGRs are still active on Euro 6 models
        Oh well it was good in theory. Only issue is the SCR NOx reduction occurs post DPF. Any ideas if engine parameters are different on Euro models? Different tune? New 2018 Prado has another ECU program which I believe changes engine characteristics slightly which may make a difference as well.

        Anyone know what temps the 200 series get at the EGT? Maybe the 2.8l runs cooler?

        Just to add to this I saw a Subaru forrester diesel pumping white smoke everytime it accelerated. So maybe other mnaufactures are encountering the issues Toyota are having. Isuzu now have a DPF so will be interesting to see if they start seeing issues as well.
        2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

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        • #19
          I wonder if any of you read other Toyota forums? here are a couple of very recent posts:

          "Toyota had the Hilux last week and the 5th injector was blocked up. They thoroughly cleaned it at the last DPF replacement 20k away
          apparently the Toyota 'temporary fix' is a can of Wurth DPF cleaner. Who would have thought?"

          and this one from the Fortuner forum:

          "Just an update with my replaced DPF. I've had it replaced as the cloud of smoke I left at the traffic lights was out of control... like ridiculous.
          I was happy for the first little while but the white/blue smoke kept building back up and now about a year later I'm back in the same boat.
          Currently the regen takes about 450km to complete, this is including highway driving in 5th gear etc.
          I have cars reversing at the traffic lights when this bad boy starts smokin up.
          The best was going through a drive through... it's embarrassing to say the least.

          I've already contacted Toyota, and they said they'll do a manual burn off, we've done this last time and it doesn't solve the problem."

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          • #20
            Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
            I wonder if any of you read other Toyota forums? here are a couple of very recent posts:

            "Toyota had the Hilux last week and the 5th injector was blocked up. They thoroughly cleaned it at the last DPF replacement 20k away
            apparently the Toyota 'temporary fix' is a can of Wurth DPF cleaner. Who would have thought?"

            and this one from the Fortuner forum:

            "Just an update with my replaced DPF. I've had it replaced as the cloud of smoke I left at the traffic lights was out of control... like ridiculous.
            I was happy for the first little while but the white/blue smoke kept building back up and now about a year later I'm back in the same boat.
            Currently the regen takes about 450km to complete, this is including highway driving in 5th gear etc.
            I have cars reversing at the traffic lights when this bad boy starts smokin up.
            The best was going through a drive through... it's embarrassing to say the least.

            I've already contacted Toyota, and they said they'll do a manual burn off, we've done this last time and it doesn't solve the problem."
            The guy with the smoking DPF should go in front of a police station and make it happen. Might get done for doing a burn out lol.

            I spoke with my dealership recently and they said Toyota will not pay for the 5th injector to be cleaned as they feel it is not the cause of the issue and dealerships should stop servicing it. It makes me laugh somewhat as what is the point of the 5th injector if its blocked...
            2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

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            • #21
              geez if the 5th injector is not the cause of the issue then remove it and we can save some fuel.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by cuda View Post

                Oh well it was good in theory. Only issue is the SCR NOx reduction occurs post DPF. Any ideas if engine parameters are different on Euro models? Different tune? New 2018 Prado has another ECU program which I believe changes engine characteristics slightly which may make a difference as well.

                Anyone know what temps the 200 series get at the EGT? Maybe the 2.8l runs cooler?

                Just to add to this I saw a Subaru forrester diesel pumping white smoke everytime it accelerated. So maybe other mnaufactures are encountering the issues Toyota are having. Isuzu now have a DPF so will be interesting to see if they start seeing issues as well.
                Not sure if they run a different tune for Euro 6
                the 1VD does run hotter than the 1GD they lowered the compression on the 1GD to lower the NOx output this also lowers exhaust temps

                Reading about all the drama people are having and typical manufacture playing dumb / not addressing the issue really annoys me.

                If you have a DPF issue and it does not get fixed contact the ACCC if enough people complain they will take action on your behalf and they they will have no choice but to tell people where they are at with fixing the problem

                they may very well have fixed it already and are not saying anything to save a recall

                our prado got looked at ( forced burn ) haven’t seen smoke since but there is soot in the tail pipe so I think it’s alreadt too late, I’m holding out and will go hard for a replacement next year hopefully by then they have it sorted

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                • #23
                  I am still looking to find a friendly owner here in the UK who will let me connect Techstream to see if I can notice any differences, the only one that I knew who had a Prado with the 2.8 engine has sold it although he didn't have any problems or even knew anything about having a DPF.
                  A guy on the Fortuner forum who has posted a "how to" with pictures about cleaning the 5th injector says that "they need cleaning every 15-20 Km" or they are likely to block, if this is the case it is ridiculous and there must be something wrong with the design?
                  Anyway it will be interesting to see what happens, if there really is a design issue with the system then this could cost Toyota a fortune to fix and their reputation for reliability would be diminished.

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                  • #24
                    Noticed yesterday when i got home it was in the process of a burn, this morning I drove 45 mins mostly between 70-100kms/h

                    At the destination it was still in a burn procedure, 2 hours later off I went.

                    Trails of white clouds out the exhaust every tap of the accelerator for 10 mins

                    45 mins later stopped and it was no longer in burn mode

                    so that’s 1k after Toyota “ serviced “ it under warranty

                    I wonder what they will say this time

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
                      ......if there really is a design issue with the system then this could cost Toyota a fortune to fix and their reputation for reliability would be diminished.
                      Toyota's reputation for diesel reliability diminished not long after they went to Common rail, when the 1KD was released. Look at the prices of anything decent with a 1HD-FTE fitted, they are crazy high. The reason is because that is a reliable engine. Not like the latest junk.
                      1979 BJ40
                      1992 FZJ80R
                      1997 HDJ80R
                      2005 GRJ120R

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                      • #26
                        I can confirm 100% that there is no passive burn occurring when percentage decreases while a burn is not in progress. I recently completed a burn and drove for 50km and DPF was up to 78%. Turned the car off and left for overnight and car cold start in the morning DPF still at 78%. Started to drive and watched percentage full begin to fall. The motor wasnt even at temp and the EGT was only 276 deg. Proof no passive burn at all.
                        2018 150 Series Crystal Pearl Prado VX 2.8l. 2 inch King springs and Bilstein shocks, Airtek TJM snorkel.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Falco80 View Post

                          Toyota's reputation for diesel reliability diminished not long after they went to Common rail, when the 1KD was released. Look at the prices of anything decent with a 1HD-FTE fitted, they are crazy high. The reason is because that is a reliable engine. Not like the latest junk.
                          The 1KD has had a few issues noted poor piston design and injector seal problems.

                          But still a lot that see high kms

                          In this day and age I could not see any benefit having a 1HD over 1VD

                          More power more torque a lot more tunability better fuel economy, longer oil change intervals and belive it or not a 1VD will do more kms as well given fuel quality is good, which in this day and age is not as much of a problem

                          I guess if you lived in the middle of nowhere and wanted something you could work on with just spanners the 1HD-FT ( non electric fuel injection ) maybe a little reassuring, that said the 1VD is not hard I work on
                          Last edited by Rockhop; 03-06-2018, 10:47 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Was following a 150 D4D towing a van yesterday when we were coming down from Emerald.
                            The thing was so rotten we just had to overtake, it smelt as bad as an ancient Bangkok Hi Lux.
                            Had to boot the 90 and then he disappeared in the mirrors.
                            What a foul car.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by cuda View Post
                              I can confirm 100% that there is no passive burn occurring when percentage decreases while a burn is not in progress. I recently completed a burn and drove for 50km and DPF was up to 78%. Turned the car off and left for overnight and car cold start in the morning DPF still at 78%. Started to drive and watched percentage full begin to fall. The motor wasnt even at temp and the EGT was only 276 deg. Proof no passive burn at all.

                              Yes I have noticed the DPF% inexplicably dropping a few % both when on the highway and city driving on quite a few occasions.
                              I assume the ECU is reading a change across the DPF. What would be the cause?

                              I can now read the EGT and DPF Temp on my ScanGuage II.
                              So far I have watched one full Regen - the DPF Temp going up over 690degrees (that would melt aluminium). EGT was under 400degrees.
                              I'll see what goes when a partial drop in DPF% happens again.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by JohnLynn View Post
                                Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the general consensus about temperature needed to regenerate the (Toyota) DPF was above 500C
                                However Wikipedia (which of course could be wrong) says this:
                                "Diesel particulate matter burns when temperatures above 600 degrees Celsius are attained. This temperature can be reduced to somewhere in the range of 350 to 450 degrees Celsius by use of a fuel borne catalyst. The actual temperature of soot burn-out will depend on the chemistry employed."
                                I think that there is a catalyst in front of our DPF but I don't understand what a "fuel borne" one is? Unless they are talking about adblue which our Euro 5 vehicles don't have.
                                I am very interested in this manual button theory, will there or wont there be one, and also if there really is another ECU update. If there is at least several of us are now monitoring present behaviour so we should be able to see what the "update" does. You can bet that Toyota dealers wont know!
                                The catalyst referred to is probably the one called Eolys. This is used in Peugeot’s and Citroen’s and is in a small bladder under the car. It needs replacing every 200,000 km or so. This link may help.
                                https://www.dieselnet.com/papers/9909rhodia/

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