D4D Chips...

[petand60 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close petand60]

Re: D4D Chips...

I'm surprised so many people with the D4D have installed chips knowing it would void warranty, especially since it may have to go in under warranty (even without a chip) due to the injector problems everyone speaks of. Yes I've read that the chip is installed after the ECU and is hence undetectable once removed, however, some people have compelling arguments against this.

I've heard of vehicles being delivered from the dealer with chip installed. Even Toyota sell a chip altough it's not directly available in Australia and has to be purchased from Europe. The chips shouldn't "void" your warranty as you have suggested. It may impact upon a warranty claim but then Toyota would have to prove that the warranty issue is directly caused by the chip. It would be like saying putting aftermarket suspension on your vehcile voids your warranty. It does not.

Spot on - like any other accessory, it has no bearing on warranty. Our consumer protection laws are pretty good in this area.

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: D4D Chips...

I've heard of vehicles being delivered from the dealer with chip installed. Even Toyota sell a chip altough it's not directly available in Australia and has to be purchased from Europe. The chips shouldn't "void" your warranty as you have suggested. It may impact upon a warranty claim but then Toyota would have to prove that the warranty issue is directly caused by the chip. It would be like saying putting aftermarket suspension on your vehcile voids your warranty. It does not.

A warranty claim on an unmodified engine would obviously be granted even if you had aftermarket suspension fitted as they aren't related. The sad fact is, if a problem does occur in the engine, all fingers would be pointed to the chip - regardless of whether it's a "known D4D problem". How will you prove that it wasn't the chip? The onus is on you to prove that it wasn't the chip, not Toyota's to prove that it was. I don't claim to know the precise workings of the D4D engine, however, I do know that a chip changes how the engine works whether it be boost, air/fuel mixture etc. Also, I've read that the chip Toyota sells is approved by them... are ChipIT, DPchip etc approved? As many people have said, each chip works differently.

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: D4D Chips...

A warranty claim on an unmodified engine would obviously be granted even if you had aftermarket suspension fitted as they aren't related.

My comment about suspension wasn't necessarily diretly related to en engine issue. You suggested your warranty would be void by a chip. I disagree espeically in light of the fact that Toyota themselves sell one.

I do agree that there needs to be proof that a chip did or didn't cause the problem in the case of en engine or turbo issue. That is why its good to have it fitted when the vehicle is new as quite a few of the chip manufacturers will offer you a 5 year warranty against the car manufacturer spinning out about some BS issue that the chip has caused the fault in the case that there is an engine issue. I know that DP and Chipit both offer this and would assume that others do as well. But then Toyota do need to prove why they are voiding your warranty in this case. They can not just void it for no known reason and they must prove it. And in the case they they do void it youi can take their comments and have an independant inspection performed to determine if the cause was the chip or not.

From the DP Chip FAQ page:
Q. Will the DPChip void my warranty?
A. We often hear this old chestnut. "My dealer said they would void my warranty if I fit a chip." Please, if they say that ask for it in writing and forward to us. We would love to see it. Nothing can ‘void’ factory warranty just by fitting it, you need a problem to happen first and it needs to have happened because of the aftermarket product. The manufacturer is not liable for a fault caused by a non genuine part. However, unlike a bull-bar, dual battery system larger exhaust or even BAD fuel, the DPChip system is very inconspicuous and can be unplugged.


Furthermore even whilst plugged in it cannot be found through diagnostic testing. This helps make the DPChip impact in a minimal way greatly lowering the chance of a 'blame game' situation coming from the dealer. We know the DPChip cannot cause a problem because of the way it is designed and the way it works, coming after the ECU and leaving all engine operational safety and warning systems intact. In fact we are so confident that the chip can’t cause an issue that we now offer a new vehicle engine and driveline warranty.


Depending on the vehicle the DPChip is also completely removable, so as you could imagine if it was removed it would also reduce the stress involved if there was a failure, but again we just don't see failures due to the time and effort we have spent over many years setting up our product. In a real world situation, if your engine or driveline was damaged, for example your radiator has a manufacturing fault and runs dry and the engine over heats and is damaged (obviously not caused by the chip) then before taking the vehicle back you would simply unplug the chip and there is no trace it was ever there. Problem solved.

Our New Vehicle engine and driveline warranty coverage is backed by our reputation of over 50 years specialising in diesels. We are the only diesel chip tuning company in the world with the background and experience to confidently provide such a warranty and to put our money where our mouth is as far as safety of our diesel chip design. Could you really trust your vehicle to a company that wont happily provide you with a confident new vehicle engine and driveline warranty? Don't you just wonder why other tuning chip companies wont provide such a warranty with their chips? After all they claim they are safe and they are all the same. If that's the case then we challenge them to match DPChip comprehensive new vehicle engine and driveline coverage. We are confident that our warranty is unsurpassed anywhere in the world.

With regard to aftermarket parts, warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used. The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought.

New Vehicle engine and driveline warranty - Backed by Australia's leading diesel experts, Berrima Diesel Service specialising in diesel since 1956.

In the event a manufacturer will not meet their new vehicle warranty obligations because of the fitting of the DPChip the customer must obtain from the vehicle manufacturer a written report stating the details of the vehicle problem and that “the DPChip was the cause of the problem and how the DPChip has caused the problem”. If the claim is proven then DPChip will authorise repairs. We know, and you can feel confident in the fact, that the DPChip is engineered to be completely safe for your engine and can't possibly cause any engine problems. That's why we're happy to provide such a warranty.


Q. Can DPChip damage my engine?
A. No, our standard settings have taken many years to fine tune to suit our unique Australian climate and fuel and are kept well within the engines tolerances. Most other tuning devices are set to European conditions however the DPChip is calibrated to our climate and fuel. DPChip optimises the entire engine map resulting in increased efficiency. Increased engine efficiency leads to improved engine durability. DPChip is installed downstream of the ECU leaving all error detection and operational safety systems intact. DPChip cannot harm the vehicles ECU, it is simply engineered in such a way that there can never be any danger to your engine. Other chips need special programming that cuts back fuel when there are overheating issues. With the DPChip things never even get to that stage. Because of our unique engineering design principal there is never a danger to your engine with the DPChip.


From the ChipIt FAQ Page
Q: Can a dealer cancel my new car warranty if I have the Module installed?

A: No. It is against Trade Practices “Anti-Competition Laws” Act for an Automotive Manufacturer to cancel, warn or even hint of cancelling new vehicle warranties because aftermarket parts are installed. It is against the law and if you are threatened with this you should kindly advise them of the breach of anti-competition laws and that you know it is illegal for them to even suggest this to you. They will soon do an about-face!

By the way, if a dealer tells you that your new vehicle “must” be serviced by a dealer for you to keep a warranty, this too is in breach of the law and you can safety ignore the statement. As long as the mechanic servicing your vehicle is licensed you are legally entitled to have you car serviced and your service book stamped ANYWHERE!

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: D4D Chips...

One more thing to add is that since you have a common rail motor I would be more worried about the quality of the diesel going in tand the potential for warranty issues from that that I would from fitting a chip and having a warranty issue. There is an amazing thread over on the LCOOL 200 series forums about a fella who filled up in a non remote country town and had a catastrphic failure of the motor. Traced it back to animal fat in the diesel which caused the issue.

[longdog Member Find all posts View Profile Close longdog]

Re: D4D Chips...

If the engine can be made to run more efficiently, more powerfully, and causes no I'll effects, why don't Toyota map it that way out of the factory? This is the one answered question that makes me wary of the chip manufactures' claims. Do Toyota not know how to build an engine?

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: D4D Chips...

longdog: more efficiently? Questionable. More powerful? Definitely. No Ill effects? Questionable. Why toyota don't map it from factory? Apparently to meet EPA requirements and undertuning for engine longevity.

As for Schaffers comments. I'm aware of the extra warranties they offer. I reckon the FAQs that you copied from their websites are biased - obviously because they're trying to sell their product. I'm not saying they're right or wrong... so far as I'm concerned, they aren't legal advisors, so I can't trust what they claim is correct. I definitely can't trust their words unless it is specifically written on their warranty card, of which I sure hope they have done. You could imagine how frustrating it would be for you if TuneIT (or alike) and Toyota were going back and forth arguging whos fault it was and running tests for weeks or months while you're left without a car. Come to think of it, I wonder if this warranty is passed onto people who buy the chip from Ebay and install it themselves.

http://www.toyota.com.au/faqs

Will the Toyota Warranty become void if I modify my car?

Toyota Warranty will continue to apply to original components of the vehicle providing they have not been altered from the manufacturer's specification or impacted by the modifications. Also, the Toyota Warranty will continue to apply if your vehicle is fitted with Toyota Genuine Parts and Accessories. However, any damage resulting from non-genuine modifications will not be covered.

According to this Toyota should be able to void the warranty claim in the event of an engine failure as the chip has caused the engine to be 'altered from the manufacturer's specification or impacted by the modifications'. So the onus (responsibility) would be on the owner of the car to prove that it was not the chip.

No doubt, I'm interested in the chip as many people have reported increase in power and some even claim better economy. I'm just under the impression that the D4D is a fragile engine. It needs specific quality fuel and is prone to injector failure. I fear that adding a chip to the mix just increases the chance of failure. I'd install one in a heartbeat if this weren't an issue.

Cheers

[petand60 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close petand60]

Re: D4D Chips...

If the engine can be made to run more efficiently, more powerfully, and causes no I'll effects, why don't Toyota map it that way out of the factory? This is the one answered question that makes me wary of the chip manufactures' claims. Do Toyota not know how to build an engine?

A toyota engineer told me that there are three levels of diesel fuel quality in the world. Australia (due to Govt policy) gets the worst and Toyota de-tune the motor to over achieve compliance with emmission controls.

[Schniff Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schniff]

Re: D4D Chips...

Schniff,

Let us know how you go with fuel economy in town and on the highway as I'm considering fitting one to my 120 series D4D. I'm after a little more power when towing but also an improvement in fuel usage on the highway and town by not having to hold the throttle down so far and for so long. I

've heard two lots of feedback from owners which chips:

1. Car goes great. Get better towing economy but worse around town.
2. Car goes great but costs me in fuel.

Thanks,

I haven't really been paying attention to fuel use. The Prado is already great on fuel for a D4D, so a small increase in usage doesnt bother me. What I was after was drivability and overtaking, which the chip delivers in spades. I think my last tank was 10.7 l/100 mainly driving around town.

I am firmly of the opinion that the only area where a chip will save fuel is where the extra torque enables to vehicle to hold a higher gear for longer. Hence, high load stuff like towing or hilly terrain should see an improvement, but theoretically around town should be worse. These chips ALL work by adding more fuel.

For those asking the question as to why Toyota doesn't deliver the engine with the improved power in the first place - consider that the engine has to have safety margins for the broadest spectrum of fuel quality, operating conditions and abuse. They know that some people will use it to tow for hours on end in dusty conditions up hills and therefore it needs to be able to do this without producing excessive EGT. They are limited by cost/benefit constraints with the exhaust being an example. Standard exhaust systems are produced for almost nothing, yet if they used a large mandel bent exhaust with hi flow cats/mufflers then EGTs would be ~100 degrees lower, but would add ~$1000 to the cost of each car. In their cost/benefit analysis they have obviously worked out it isn't worth it. They are right; the Prado still comprehensively outsells all its competitors even with an underpowered light truck 4 cylinder diesel.

Make no mistake, if you buy a chip and turn up the fueling so far that you blow heaps of smoke then tow all day up hills the life of the engine will shorten. If you are sensible, monitor those parameters that are being altered and compensate with a better exhaust then there shouldn't be any issues. The auber EGT gauge that Chipit are flogging for 400 bucks can be had for 100 if imported from the company in the states and is dead easy to install. Boost gauges are even easier to install as you can tap the vacuum line to the Air flow meter on the inlet manifold. Piece of piss and not expensive by any means.

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Re: D4D Chips...

A review from a chip owner! Thank you Schniff for your valuable insight.

Cheers

[longdog Member Find all posts View Profile Close longdog]

Re: D4D Chips...

Agreed, thanks Schniff for a very sensible answer. I'd love a chip for towing the boat, it does hunt up and down on the highway and a chip might fix that, but I'm wary of shortening engine life, these engines are expensive! I do a lot of km and hope to keep this vehicle a long time.

WRT engine life, is that why the Hilux runs an even further detuned version of this D4D, so it remains unbreakable for even longer?