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150 Prado vs TD100

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  • 150 Prado vs TD100

    Hi All. I知 looking at buying a TD100 or a Prado 150 and I知 chasing info from people who have either owned both or directly observed these two vehicles operating on the same trip / in the exact same circumstances. I have driven both, but only for work and not in any real touring / towing / serious offroad conditions and haven稚 driven the new 2.8 Prado yet. I have read a stack of forum info and opinions on both but would like to hear direct comparison / observations on:
    1. Which one tows better in sand. The TD100 has more power, but the Prado is lighter and has traction control (some turn this off though? Some only turn off VSC and I get a sense many people don稚 understand the difference). They have the same power to weight ratio and the same size tyre as standard. Think heavy camper trailer, soft sand which one is more capable in this scenario?
    2. Ride comfort I remember being really impressed by the ride comfort in the TD100, but it痴 been 10 years since I drove one. The new Prados are pretty good also. I知 specifically interested in which one handles corrugation better, and the big sharp potholes and lumps. From my experience it痴 the shorter, sharper harsh stuff where you notice the difference.
    3. General offroad capability. People tend to have this perception that the TD100 is a weapon offroad, but it痴 hard to imagine it would outperform a Prado with TC, given the 100 has open diffs. Yes you can fit lockers but let痴 ignore that initially.
    4. Space I have three kids, so the middle row of seats will be full. Will they be cramped in a prado? Leg room? I suspect the 100 series cargo space is quite a bit bigger?
    5. Fuel economy. I hear such mixed results, but mods and cruising speed (100 vs 110) have such an impact it痴 all a little meaningless unless you have long term experience with each. From what I致e read, a stock standard TD100 could achieve around 11 or 12l/100km cruising at 110, but most seem to be closer to 13 or 14. A Prado should be about 2 or 3l/100km better. Thoughts?
    Of course, the 1KD Prado could crack a piston and cost me $15k but depending on who you listen to monitoring injector values can prevent this. Also, the TD100 will prob (?) cost $10,000 more in fuel over 200,000km and this is a guaranteed loss vs a 僧oderate risk of cracking a piston in the Prado. The 1GD has the DPF issue, timing chain issue and airbox dust ingress issue, and I hear the 6 speed box hunts a lot and is a pain towing. Could always 租elete the dpf if it really became an issue, and grease around the filter seal should alleviate the dust issue I think.
    I am prepared to sacrifice the extra fuel in the TD100 if it tows better in sand, is more comfortable, and more capable offroad but I am not convinced this is the case. Comments from owners or direct observation between these two vehicles in the same conditions would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    The 1hdfte is a pre common rail motor,and doesn稚 feel as fast a common rail but it痴 more old school and reliable, but for the price you値l be looking at a 10 year old car with 200,000km or a newer prado with a lot less km and a good comfy tourer,

    i like the drive of the 100 over the 150 I feel it痴 more comfy to sit in and see where your driving and seat and pedals are a good distance, I feel the 150 is a little uncomfy after using my Getz for work comapared to a 100

    with a exhaust intercooler and chip you値l get good gains with the 1hdfte they are awesome car, they are torsion bar fronts compared to a coil ifs in the 150 wich has limiting travel,

    you get way more tech and features with the 150 though wich is nice touring,

    if your going to spend 40k or whatever on a 100 with 200km or a 150 I壇 say maybe look for a 200 series of the budget allows ? Could get a 200 ttd around the 50k with similar km to a 100

    and there is a few issues with the 100 also the roof rails have captive nuts that if not sealed correctly let water in and car cause a lot of damage, and also aftermarket front windscreens don稚 fit perfect and can let water in to the a Pilar痴 and then lead in to the kick panels where expensive electrics are.. that痴 what happen to mine 15k worth of electrics damaged all full of corrosion and lucky I was with aami they tried to fix it but couldn稚 as they wanted brand new genuine parts from Japan and they ended up writing the car off ad it was to expensive

    but I guess that痴 why I have a prado now

    the 100 is a way better towing car over a prado.. if I was towing I壇 maybe look at a 3l prado maybe 2015 before the 2.8 came out ? They should be pretty decent most issues fixed.. the 2.8 now is a good motor but it feels gutless compared to the 3l I feel

    but a 200 is what you want for a tow car

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah I know what you're saying about ergonomics of the prado - the seat / steering wheel position just doesn't seem quite right.

      I didn't get into the whole chip / exhaust / intercooler issue mainly because I'm not convinced there's a safe, trouble free option for chipping the 100 series and a lot of people say exhaust made not much difference. From what i read on lcool forum those that say an exhaust made a difference may well have had blockages in the stock system and be misinterpreting larger exhaust with returns to normal performance or economy. Obviously I wouldn't chip a Prado given the piston issue.

      Are you saying torsion bar or coil ifs has more travel?

      The Prado tech features are nice, agreed, but mainly for me the traction control for offroad and vsc, particularly if the mrs is driving are really the main attractions. Those are really the only ones tipping the balance for the prado. You can get those in the Sahara 100s but I'm not paying 40k plus for a car that old. Period.

      I'm looking more around the 30k mark, so 200s are off the list.

      I read a little bit about the window seal / rust issue but I had no idea it could write the car off! Where would you look when inspecting to check this?

      Interesting you say the 3L is better than the 2.8. And that the 100 is a "way better tow vehicle". This seems to be the consensus but what I'm trying to work out is does this translate to towing in soft sand? Does the weight of the 100 reduce this advantage or not?

      Thanks heaps for the input.



      Comment


      • #4
        A larger exhaust will help with towing. The difference it will make it in the low down torque so make a difference taking off and going up hills and maybe in sand too and boost will come on sooner ?

        i was and still am a member of loocl it痴 a good forum and there痴 multiple people with do chips on there痴 with no issues,, a Custom tune could do a lot too..

        being a 4.2 it痴 over engineered and it can cope with a lot of abuse and can be tuned really well..

        the prado is still a over engineered motor and is safe to upgrade stuff but I would be more confident,

        injectors on a 1hdfte are a few hundred compared to a common rail 2K

        my father in-law has a 120 prado with the 3l it痴 about to hit 400,000km it痴 a really good car too we致e taken it everywhere but others can稚 get 100,000km out of there痴 so it痴 a bit of a gamble too..

        there is is a black seal ruber around the windscreen you can peel it back to
        check for rust, also from the inside you can pull back the headlining near the windscreen too to see if there痴 any gaps etc ..

        can always open the kick panels too and have a look try pull out some of the wiring for corrosion?

        or get a hose and drench the cover and go inside and and see if any water comes through too..

        coil front ifs has better travel and flex compared To torsion bars,


        To be honest you won稚 need traction control especially in sand or you値l be spinning and getting bogged.. and I think once you put it in low range on a prado the vsc disengages??

        its a heavier vehicle but has alot more power and grunt..

        it also depends what your towing too ? If it痴 just a camper the prado should do it easy too

        you need to test drive one etc and see if you like it.. prado is Better value and will
        be a newer car too


        Comment


        • #5
          Few things at play here. A 100 series probably has the best diesel motor Toyota ever made. Our 100 series has over 450K on the clock and is immaculate condition, we replaced the tappet cover gasket about 3 months ago as it was leaking and the internals still look like they're brad new- A true testament to a fantastic engine that is well undertuned and the benefits of regular servicing. the FTE will literally keep running as the rest of the car rusts/ deteriorates into the ground. There's a reason these things are still worth insane money.

          A 100 series to my mind has more in common with an 80 series than a 200 series in levels of refinement- You sit very upright and for me (a 2 meter, 140Kg male) it's pretty cramped for leg room- The 150 is much more like a car that you "sit in" and I find it much more comfortable to drive. Interior room wise the 100 series is much wider, the center console is where you'll notice this as two adults can comfortably rest their arms on it unlike a 150.

          Power and torque wise the 100 feels much more relaxed and much more toquey off the mark- Which can be expected as it's a big motor with a little turbo- as opposed to a little motor with a small turbo. The 100 is a lot heavier as well, meaning it's a better tow vehicle in my opinion as it feels a lot more composed on the road. I had the misfortune of towing my 150 prado on a car trailer with it about 2 weeks ago and it felt great going down the highway- Even loaded up with over 3 tonne on the back.

          Refinement and offroad wise it's not even a contest- The 150 wins hands down. Torsion bars are pretty rubbish in the front when compared to coilovers and there's a reason nobody uses them in passenger cars anymore. Coils will flex more and are more comfortable on and offroad. The 100 can be fitted with lockers but TC in a 150 is pretty amazing offroad for a stock package- You'll find yourself going places that guys with older 80's and GQ's without lockers sit and spin.

          Fuel economy the 150 is better- It's a newer, lighter and smaller frame and engine package. The FTE is no slouch however and returns decent fuel economy for what it is. I average around 11.5 Liters in my heavily modified 150 (bigger wheels, lift, bullbar, winch, roofrack, awning etc.) while our stock FTE gets around the 13-14 liter mark.


          At the end of the day it has to be factored in that 100 series TD's are still worth silly money for what you're getting- The newest ones are MY 2006 so you're looking at a minimum of a 13 year old car and will pay well into the 40's if it's got low kms. If you wanted the best offroad Toyota you'd be best served with getting a 105 series and transplanting an FT or FTE (along with the auto) into it- You'd get the offroad ability of an 80 with the comfort and refinement of a 100.

          For my needs the 150 is great, I'd take it hands down over the 100 every day unless I was towing all the time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Gurilla I guess when I say I知 not convinced there痴 a 奏rouble free chip option I知 not really that worried about engine damage as I would be on a prado, it痴 more the little niggles and issues people have. I知 sure it could be done I just haven稚 read enough yet.

            And your point about the Prado being a gamble is why I even started looking at 100s in the first place. When we first got Prados at work they were such a no-brainer decision. 180L tank (on the 120) and close to 10L/100 gave an awesome range. Comfortable, really good on rough roads (far better than a Pajero), good safety features. And now the addition of VSC and TC as standard makes the 150 a really attractive proposition. BUT everyone loves their Prado until it goes bang, and then it痴 all 的 wish I壇 never bought this car, 的 wish I壇 bought the V6, 的値l never buy another Toyota etc.

            So I was leaning towards the 100. Old school Toyota reliability, good power, bit more room for three kids across the middle row, more space to pack gear, and the lift up / tail gate is really useful for a seat and table. But then Atherton comes along with his insights and it痴 really made me reconsider. I spend A LOT of time off road three or four times a week normally - on crappy corrugated sand dune tracks that people chop up by not letting their tyres down, so ride comfort offroad is really important to me. Important enough to simply rule the Pajero out, even though it is great value, good economy and the motor and gearbox are pretty bulletproof. They simply ride too rough to be on the list.

            And you guys are right - people are still asking silly money for good condition 100s especially Saharas which have TC and VSC. I saw a good stock 2003 GXL the other day though with 170,000km, asking price of $33k. There痴 a lot of years left in that one.

            And lastly there痴 the fuel economy variance. Atherton痴 saying 13 to 14 out of a stock 100. That痴 sort of creeping onto V6 Prado territory which is another option I briefly entertained but it痴 just too much fuel when you get into towing or heavy off road work.

            Gurilla you致e owned both Prado and TD100 how do you compare the ride comfort offroad? And performance in soft sand? Economy?

            I知 starting to lean back in the Prado direction either 3.0L and make sure my insurance covers bad fuel, monitor injector values. Or get the 2.8 and delete the DPF. I need to read more about this timing chain issue the 2.8s have.

            Thanks heaps for your comments boys.

            Comment


            • #7
              The prado is a great car and this why we brought one ! I do love it but I feel the 100 is more comfy doesn稚 feel to over the top and modern ? Prado preformed off road stock awesome I致e been up to to mundaring power lines and went hard and it went everywhere.. obviously I didn稚 do anything stupid to damage the car

              to to be honest you hear the horror stories but have you seen how many hiluxs and prados are on the road ? There pretty much every second car you see.. and you only hear a hand full of people car blowing up.. I壇 say 98%? Are fine ????

              mate I never owned a 100td I had a 105 with the solid axle with the 1hz but I致e driven a few 100td and v8

              i loved my 105 was one of the best cars I owned and it was a 1 owner immaculate just the water issue and it writing it off ! Tired to find another but couldn稚 find one as good as mine so I brought a 80 series with a factory turbo 1hdt and was awesome but then we upgraded and got the prado to keep for 5-10 years

              Comment


              • #8
                While the 100 from stock 13 years ago is an exceptionally reliable vehicle you've got to realise that the early ones are nudging 20 years old- Even if it's been well looked after you're going to have silly things that need replacing- Think hoses, belts, wheel bearings, electrical gremlins etc. Then there's the diffs and driveline components. I've just blown a turbo in my 150 so I've not got the appreciation for the newer toyotas reliability that i used to but I still think they're an exceptional vehicle. Like others have said I think the D4D gets a worse rep than it deserves, the fact is that there's probably at least double the amount of 1KD's getting around than it's nearest competitor. They're used in Hilux's, Prados, Rav 4's and Hiaces- All of which are top selling vehicles in their class.

                If you want bulletproof reliability get a 105 and put a 1HD FT in it- or go the whole hog and fit a 6bt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gees between here and the 100scool forum over at lcool you guys are making this decision bloody hard ha ha. Atherton your last post is another one of my concerns. I used to have a 12HT 60 which was an awesome car. It was hard to watch that drive away when i sold it, but like you allude to everything just got too old in it. I live at the beach too, so the deterioration is even worse. Every little fitting, screw and bolt had some form of corrosion on it, door locks stopped working, rusted panels of course being a 60. BUT - I can't see a prado lasting like the 100s do. I reckon after about 400,000km the prado would be pretty stuffed and the 100 would still have a good 100,000 left in it.

                  We've got plenty of prados at work but i need to get my hands on a 100 series and find a rough track or two.

                  Atherton if you had to tow a 1-tonne camper trailer along a soft, dodgy sloping beach and over sand dunes for an hour or two which car would have less risk of getting bogged and / or overheating the auto? Assume tyre sizes are the same, no lift, no chip or tune.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    100 1hdfte it will be cruising as it has a larger motor not working as hard, the auto on both would be getting warm if you don稚 manually select a gear that痴 needed and using low range in sand

                    prado would do it but will have more pressure on the motor and will be working harder being a smaller motor and keeping boost on

                    if you were going to do a lot of sand towing you壇 be wanting a tranny cooler no matter what.. and would want to have some sort of gauge or a scan gauge to watch trans temps and egts too with all that hard work getting

                    i have to disagree if the car is looked after it will last no matter what and oils changed when needed

                    you could get a 100td with 200,000km and have issues and things go wrong once you in it.. not all of them will last a lot time either.. all cars and motors have bad apples in the bunch

                    as ive said before my father in-laws late 2006 吐irst of the 120 prado with the 3l d4d is about to hit 400,000km and is a really decent car and still takes us places

                    it痴 been looked after and serviced when needed, injectors changed when needed and t belt twice already it does do some hard miles but with ease and the body motor and running gear are still strong and looks like it will go at least another 100k+ easy

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Roger - yeah i fitted a transmission temp guage to the old V6 auto pajero i have at the moment as I know it's easy to cook em.

                      I know the 100 series already has a transmission cooler as factory equip - do 150 Prados have one?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The 3l doesn稚 ? Think the Kakadu does ? The 2.8 already does I think ??

                        think you can get a kit with bracket hoses etc someone on makes them and sells online think it痴 few hundred ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A 1HD-FTE is more likely to last a lot longer than a 1KD simply because it is less stressed and an order of magnitude less complicated. You've got a big 4.2 Litre straight 6 with a small turbo running moderate boost compared to a 3L 4 cylinder that has a small turbo running a higher level of boost.

                          For towing on a beach the 100 would probably handle it better as it's just a bigger, more powerful vehicle. Having said that, I do believe the that 150 is the more capable 4wd between the pair- It's got a host of traction aids (although admittedly most of them are turned off for sand driving) and is lighter with a better suspension setup for on and offroad driving. As a previous poster mentioned, you'd want a trans cooler fitted to both vehicles if you were going to be doing beach running with a trailer even on a semi-regular basis.

                          Both cars run the same auto box (A750F) which is an excellent unit and probably less stressed in the Prado being that is is a fair bit lighter than the 100. The 150 Prado is a well proven unit, the main weakness is probably the D4D- Rest of the driveline doesn't seem to give any grief- From memory I think the earlier 100 series ran a weaker diff than the later ones so that might be something to watch out for if you were looking at buying one from '98-'01 (I think dates are about right, I believe they moved to the stronger diff in the series 2- can't remember exactly).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Your better with the series 2 also as it has 5 so over a 4sp auto

                            also it was the 105 with a weak front diff but and would do damage if you were snatching some one in reverse but I never had any issues with mine, I also could be wrong the 100s could of also had issues ??

                            think it痴 just one of those things again you hear only the bad stuff and again the amount of cars on the road Compared to the odd you hear issues about

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