Ironman foamcell pros

[Whitey]

Aww man. Just when I thought I had what suspension I was going to put in sorted you go and throw this in the mix. Was looking at the Bilstein/dobinson package after reading a plethora of posts in here, but now Quadrant has closed down ....... ???

Car is used as a daily driver (no load in rear) but when we go away it is loaded up for touring. 3 Teenage kids, luggage, fridge and a 1.5t Camper on the back. Normal fruit up front, Bar, dual battery and soon to be winch (Please Santa?). Currently have polyairs in the rear but the suspension definitely needs work over standard when loaded up for touring. Is there a similar spring to the C327 (what I was looking at) available in Kings (KTPR-102?) and still have the poly airs to assist when loaded.

Keen to be involved in a group buy also.

Cheers,
Barrie.

Hey Barrie,

Yep Jim from Quadrant retired and Sydney Shocks bought the lot. Unfortunately they won't be making the 24-173032-1 either as they deem it to be too expensive.

I can do Dobinsons coils if you prefer, no problem.

My Prado is the same, runs around with just a steel bar and a fridge in the back, but then gets loaded to the max when I go off road.

I'll put you on the list!

Best

Mark

[photoprado]

While we're at it, what is the weight of the ironmen?

[404pug]

Thanks,Mark. I have been doing my head in reading all those threads! I think I follow them! My 150 GX is set up very similarly to bazzang above and was zeroing in on a similar combination to him so this all sounds good. The only question is around ride quality with your proposed setup [and I know the issues around ride/handling] Neil

Update. Mark I am sure you have seen these but for the rest of us they make intersting reading. They sure sound like a good bit of gear. They and other bits I have read seem to answer my question re. ride quality unladen- not harsh at all.

http://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/we-tes...hock-absorber/

http://www.ironman4x4.com/news/foam-cell-pro-testing

[bazzang]

Aww man. Just when I thought I had what suspension I was going to put in sorted you go and throw this in the mix. Was looking at the Bilstein/dobinson package after reading a plethora of posts in here, but now Quadrant has closed down ....... ???

Car is used as a daily driver (no load in rear) but when we go away it is loaded up for touring. 3 Teenage kids, luggage, fridge and a 1.5t Camper on the back. Normal fruit up front, Bar, dual battery and soon to be winch (Please Santa?). Currently have polyairs in the rear but the suspension definitely needs work over standard when loaded up for touring. Is there a similar spring to the C327 (what I was looking at) available in Kings (KTPR-102?) and still have the poly airs to assist when loaded.

Keen to be involved in a group buy also.

Cheers,
Barrie.

[Whitey]

Mark. Also very interested in this. What are the pluses and minuses of hydraulic v. gas shocks? I thought that the latter were almost universal these days especially in terms of initial impact on ride. Whose springs do you propose to use? Neil

Hey pug,

Hydraulic shocks have earned their reputation in Australia based on how they perform on corrugations. They are very fade resistant shocks as they can hold more oil. More oil means more heat exchange, and shocks can run cooler.

The Ironman twin tube hydraulics run a 45mm bore, similar size to the 46mm bore in a 2” monotube. However the outer diameter of the Ironman is 70mm meaning it holds a lot more oil in the twin tube overflow chamber, plus there is no gas chamber in a hydraulic, more oil again in the middle bore. There is around twice the oil in an Ironman Pro. The oil in the Ironmans is also a heavy duty service oil, which can takes very high operating temperatures.

Ironmans run a larger shaft diameter of 20mm, typical 2” monotube runs a 14mm shaft, which limits the valving to around 4000N. The larger diameter shaft on the Ironman is also far better for the Prado, particularly the rear where there is a lot of side load on the shafts.

Ironman hydraulics have the advantage over all other hydraulics, including Koni and Tough Dog, as they are both rebuildable and come in long travel. Koni are short travel, no good in lifted geometry. Tough Dogs are not rebuildable. If something goes wrong in your Ironman, you can service it easily by yourself at home. Damaged gas shocks will require a costly visit to a specialist with a gas recharging rig.

The nitrogen impregnated foamcell in the Ironmans acts in a similar manner to the floating piston in a monotube, in that there is always pressure on the oil to prevent cavitation. The Ironmans also run cooler than a traditional hydraulic because of this, as in a traditional hydraulic like a Koni there is only air above the oil.

The struts and shocks I will be supplying on the group buy are also uniquely valved. I will be putting both the dyno runs up on the thread when I start it. These will have the highest low velocity critical damping ever seen on a Prado.

You can read all about the critical damping here;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...uts-and-shocks

The advantage of having high critically damped struts and shocks is in controlling vehicle kinematics such as pitch, body roll etc. The rears will be around 90%, and are the most important in terms of controlling the Prado. Off road in slow speed driving, eg., rutted out sand tracks, getting through rocky terrain etc., you will really notice how nicely the suspension will cycle through the terrain with a minimum of sprung mass body movement.

The front struts will be the first of their kind, and will have knee speeds shortened to 50-60mm/s, to give around 100mm/s at the wheel position, you can read about how the motion ratio on the IFS scales the front valving here;

http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...on-IFS-valving

To get the IFS kinematically active means shortening those knee speeds to around 100mm/s at the wheel position, and there is no off the shelf strut that does this. The Ironman struts really will be the first.

The front Ironman Pro struts also come with a height adjustable threaded body, something that is more expensive to get in a monotube.

To offer a final perspective, the Ironmans are a heavy duty service item, this is the same shock geometry that gets used in trucks and buses. They are a seriously beefy bit of gear which have the unique advantage that they can be worked on at home. Gas monotubes will always be susceptible to knocking the floating piston and seizing it in place, seen plenty. Many monotube gas chambers are also too short in length, making knocking far easier. For a monotube it is preferable to get that floating piston into a reservoir where it can’t be knocked, but then you have hose issues. The best monotube in my opinion is a proper cross-flow piggyback, where oil gets properly exchanged between the piggyback and the main shock body by a fixed welded pipe, no hose. Piggyback geometry is also preferable on the Prado rear. I am working on a custom 60mm monotube piggyback but it is a much longer term project!

I’m not into the whole twin-tube vs monotube argument, I enjoy the best of both. I don’t like small bore 35mm twin tubes because they fade too easily, but I also don’t like 46mm monotubes in the Prado rear because of the 14mm shafts and small gas chambers. You can live with both, but I prefer the best of both!

Coils for the group buy will be Kings.

Best

Mark

[404pug]

Mark. Also very interested in this. What are the pluses and minuses of hydraulic v. gas shocks? I thought that the latter were almost universal these days especially in terms of initial impact on ride. Whose springs do you propose to use? Neil

[Whitey]

I'd be keen on that too!!!

Rdae,

I'll put you on the list!

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

I'm keen as well. I assume the rear will be shocks and springs?

Hey Steve,

Yep I'll offer rear coils, it'll depend what lift you want to get.

I'll put you on the list!

Best

Mark

[Rdae1981]

Hey Samo,

If you can hang on for a little while, I'll have the front struts sorted soon. I'll then offer a group buy to PP members for custom valved Ironman Pros for the Prado!

Best

Mark

I'd be keen on that too!!!

[krypto]

I'm keen as well. I assume the rear will be shocks and springs?

[Whitey]

Cool.

Oh yea, any chance of a shortened closed length 370mm in the rear yet?

Hey,

Still working on a piggyback, have found a good tig welder!

Best

Mark

[photoprado]

Cool.

Oh yea, any chance of a shortened closed length 370mm in the rear yet?

[Whitey]

Doing a kit, front and rear?

Hey!

Yeah I'll offer all three combinations, front struts by themselves, rears by themselves or the whole front/rear kit and kaboodle!

Best

Mark

[photoprado]

Doing a kit, front and rear?

[Whitey]

Hey amts,

I've got you on the list!

Best

Mark