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  • Bilstien/Dobinson front ride height

    I am chasing some advice on the front height of my suspension. I have Billy's/dobinson combo and have been very happy with them, but over the 12 months they've been installed I have noticed that my front end has dropped from around 820mm to 803mm and now it looks a bit nose heavy (probably contributed to by my steel bar and 120amp aux batt).

    It is currently on the 2nd curclip/tier on the shocks and I am thinking about moving it up to the top/third curclip. Does anyone know what height gain I could expect by doing this? I would like to see 10-15mm increase but no more. I also don't want to effect the ride too much by increasing the pre-load by doing this.. any feedback/experience would be appreciated.

    Luke
    2016 Toyota Prado GXL auto. ARB deluxe bar, Rock Armor side steps, 9in Penetrator LED spotties (30,000LM), Uniden 8060 UHF, Bilstein/Dobinson 2in lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's, Safari snorkel, Dual battery system, ARB onboard compressor, Custom rear false floor, Kaon bash plates, Ext. diff/gearbox breathers, Provent 200, Wynnum tow bar, Roadsafe tow points, Phillips crystalvision bulbs, tint, Rhino rack platform.

  • #2
    Isn't 820 way over ideal? I thought that I read on here somewhere that around 790 is ideal at the front?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Luke,

      Dobinsons coils are known to display continuous settling, likely due to poor scragging. Expect them to settle more.

      The circlips are usually 7mm apart, so you'll get around 7x1.89 = 13.2mm of lift moving up a circlip.

      As pug has stated, 820mm is on the high side. After around 790mm ride height you lose droop in a 1:1 ratio for every millimetre you lift, even on long 570mm open length struts. Going from 790 to 820 means you've sacrificed roughly 30mm of droop. The 800mm ride height you have now is actually good!

      What is your rear ride height?

      Running 830mm rear/790mm front also gives much better handling.

      The change in preload will barely be noticed if you do lift it up again, but you'll definitely notice the lack of droop.

      Best

      Mark
      2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Whitey View Post
        Hey Luke,

        Dobinsons coils are known to display continuous settling, likely due to poor scragging. Expect them to settle more.

        The circlips are usually 7mm apart, so you'll get around 7x1.89 = 13.2mm of lift moving up a circlip.

        As pug has stated, 820mm is on the high side. After around 790mm ride height you lose droop in a 1:1 ratio for every millimetre you lift, even on long 570mm open length struts. Going from 790 to 820 means you've sacrificed roughly 30mm of droop. The 800mm ride height you have now is actually good!

        What is your rear ride height?

        Running 830mm rear/790mm front also gives much better handling.

        The change in preload will barely be noticed if you do lift it up again, but you'll definitely notice the lack of droop.

        Best

        Mark
        Thanks Mark,

        I have about 852mm in the rear, so it's sitting at about 852mm rear/803 front. I have the 327 springs in the back for when I load up to go away it levels out.

        I have removed the third row seats and put a false floor in which is a fair bit lighter. I may need to consider a lighter spring in the rear (325) and bring the back down a bit rather then take the front up.. or just leave it as is..

        Luke
        2016 Toyota Prado GXL auto. ARB deluxe bar, Rock Armor side steps, 9in Penetrator LED spotties (30,000LM), Uniden 8060 UHF, Bilstein/Dobinson 2in lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's, Safari snorkel, Dual battery system, ARB onboard compressor, Custom rear false floor, Kaon bash plates, Ext. diff/gearbox breathers, Provent 200, Wynnum tow bar, Roadsafe tow points, Phillips crystalvision bulbs, tint, Rhino rack platform.

        Comment


        • #5
          What is the Bilstein part number at the rear?
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          Comment


          • #6
            Hi have the Caloffroad bilsteins, i think they have the same open and closed lengths. I had a fair bit of sagging in the front end after add second battery and winch. After i added the winch i wasn't happy with the 800mm height i had, and ended up adding a 6mm strut spacer which brough the car back to 810mm height. I'm happy where it is now.
            Adding a strut spacer won't effect your droop but be careful the cv's or ball joints don't bind.
            My rears are at 845mm and I'm happy how it sits and handles now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lski View Post
              Thanks Mark,

              I have about 852mm in the rear, so it's sitting at about 852mm rear/803 front. I have the 327 springs in the back for when I load up to go away it levels out.

              I have removed the third row seats and put a false floor in which is a fair bit lighter. I may need to consider a lighter spring in the rear (325) and bring the back down a bit rather then take the front up.. or just leave it as is..

              Luke
              Hey Luke,

              Your 327 lifting to 850mm in the rear is not impossible but an unusually high lift for just a 327. What shocks are you running in the rear, you may not have a heap of droop at that lift in the rear also.

              What are your Bilstein part numbers?

              Best

              Mark
              2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jerrers View Post
                Hi have the Caloffroad bilsteins, i think they have the same open and closed lengths. I had a fair bit of sagging in the front end after add second battery and winch. After i added the winch i wasn't happy with the 800mm height i had, and ended up adding a 6mm strut spacer which brough the car back to 810mm height. I'm happy where it is now.
                Adding a strut spacer won't effect your droop but be careful the cv's or ball joints don't bind.
                My rears are at 845mm and I'm happy how it sits and handles now.
                Hey Jerrers,

                The CalOffroad Bilsteins do not typically come at the longer open lengths of other Bilsteins. The usual length they come from is 555mm, so even at 800mm ride height you may not have a heap of droop, can you measure the front droop?

                All Bilstein lengths and valving can be found here;

                http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...hs-and-Valving

                The Cal strut is a copy of the TRD strut, part number 24-218528. You may have noticed it topping out if you definitely have the 555mm. You would have had to pay more for lengthening.

                All info on strut and coil spacers in Prados is here;

                http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...can-they-break

                Best

                Mark
                2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Mark, current droop in about 75mm. I wasn't overly impressed with the droop when i first installed the suspension and ended up adding a 10mm spacer the the strut piston rod effectively lengthening the open length. The suspension has been this way for 3 years without any problem.

                  I'm not a big fan of strut spacers and would never go over 6mm because of the additional forces. When i installed mine i also spaced the bump stop.

                  I was originally happy with the Caloffroad shocks but due to all the extra weight they are too soft now, and 3 years of abuse.

                  I may put my hand up for a set of your custom ironman shocks when the time comes. But will want to stick with the same 810mm front end height.

                  Cheers
                  Jeremy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jerrers View Post
                    Hi Mark, current droop in about 75mm. I wasn't overly impressed with the droop when i first installed the suspension and ended up adding a 10mm spacer the the strut piston rod effectively lengthening the open length. The suspension has been this way for 3 years without any problem.

                    I'm not a big fan of strut spacers and would never go over 6mm because of the additional forces. When i installed mine i also spaced the bump stop.

                    I was originally happy with the Caloffroad shocks but due to all the extra weight they are too soft now, and 3 years of abuse.

                    I may put my hand up for a set of your custom ironman shocks when the time comes. But will want to stick with the same 810mm front end height.

                    Cheers
                    Jeremy
                    Hey Jeremy,

                    Top work! You did the smart thing spacing the bumpstop...not many do and pay the price for bump outs!

                    The compression on the Cal struts is pretty low, only around 1600N at 0.52m/s at the strut position, which translates to a poorly 550N at 0.52m/s at the wheel position once you scale through the IFS motion ratio. This simply won't cope with a lot of weight, and you'll be susceptible to hard bump outs.

                    This is why I always prefer to see at least 2000N compression on a strut.

                    The TRD spec valving was setup for a Hilux with no accessories on a race track, and is not appropriate for real off-road conditions.

                    Best

                    Mark
                    2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Whitey View Post
                      Hey Luke,

                      Your 327 lifting to 850mm in the rear is not impossible but an unusually high lift for just a 327. What shocks are you running in the rear, you may not have a heap of droop at that lift in the rear also.

                      What are your Bilstein part numbers?

                      Best

                      Mark
                      Mark/ATMS
                      These are my part numbers. Zordo spaced down my rear shocks 15mm but I don't think that would effect the height?
                      Click image for larger version

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                      2016 Toyota Prado GXL auto. ARB deluxe bar, Rock Armor side steps, 9in Penetrator LED spotties (30,000LM), Uniden 8060 UHF, Bilstein/Dobinson 2in lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's, Safari snorkel, Dual battery system, ARB onboard compressor, Custom rear false floor, Kaon bash plates, Ext. diff/gearbox breathers, Provent 200, Wynnum tow bar, Roadsafe tow points, Phillips crystalvision bulbs, tint, Rhino rack platform.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lski View Post
                        Mark/ATMS
                        These are my part numbers. Zordo spaced down my rear shocks 15mm but I don't think that would effect the height?
                        [ATTACH=CONFIG]25094[/ATTACH]
                        Hey,

                        That's a good shock for the rear and I know John spaces them a little, you'll still have plenty of droop even at 850mm, prolly around 90mm, see here;

                        http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...for-120-150-FJ

                        Best

                        Mark
                        2006 GXL petrol auto. ARB deluxe bar x3 HID IPF's, ARB alloy roofrack, ARB awning, BFG A/T, Safari snorkel, Piranha breathers, Pacemaker extractors, custom Ironman 45710FE 436-569mm with Dobinsons 350, custom Ironman 45682FE 383-618mm with Dobinsons 487, Firestone kevlar 60psi airbags, 30mm extended Roadsafe links, AMTS bashplate and recovery points, ABR Flyer with Powersonic AGM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Whitey View Post
                          Hey,

                          That's a good shock for the rear and I know John spaces them a little, you'll still have plenty of droop even at 850mm, prolly around 90mm, see here;

                          http://www.pradopoint.com.au/showthr...for-120-150-FJ

                          Best

                          Mark
                          Yes, with the spacing I thought it was actually more then that when I did some tests, but either way it does seem to articulate and hang down well in the rear. Have extended the SB links also. I think I just need to decide if I change out the rear springs to get the height down a little..
                          2016 Toyota Prado GXL auto. ARB deluxe bar, Rock Armor side steps, 9in Penetrator LED spotties (30,000LM), Uniden 8060 UHF, Bilstein/Dobinson 2in lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's, Safari snorkel, Dual battery system, ARB onboard compressor, Custom rear false floor, Kaon bash plates, Ext. diff/gearbox breathers, Provent 200, Wynnum tow bar, Roadsafe tow points, Phillips crystalvision bulbs, tint, Rhino rack platform.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jerrers View Post

                            I'm not a big fan of strut spacers and would never go over 6mm because of the additional forces. When i installed mine i also spaced the bump stop.
                            Jeremy,
                            Questions on your strut spacers - What's the reason for spacing out the bump stop? Is it to a avoid the shock reaching max compression before the bump stop hits? Did you space it at 6mm to match the strut spacer?

                            Can you recall the brand of strut spacer you used?

                            I want to add a winch soon which will add to my front sag issue and thinking a strut spacer may be an option..

                            Cheers
                            Luke
                            2016 Toyota Prado GXL auto. ARB deluxe bar, Rock Armor side steps, 9in Penetrator LED spotties (30,000LM), Uniden 8060 UHF, Bilstein/Dobinson 2in lift, 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson ATZ P3's, Safari snorkel, Dual battery system, ARB onboard compressor, Custom rear false floor, Kaon bash plates, Ext. diff/gearbox breathers, Provent 200, Wynnum tow bar, Roadsafe tow points, Phillips crystalvision bulbs, tint, Rhino rack platform.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Luke, exactly spacing the bump stop reduces the chance of the shock bottoming out first. Can't remember exactly was around 4 to 5mm, not much. The bump stop is closer to the pivot point and therefore travels less distance.
                              I got the spacers from 4WD1 at Castle Hill, they were about the only people who sold thin spacers. Most companies sell 10mm spacer which gives 20mm lift.
                              Installing the spacers only look about 40min all up. Very easy.

                              Comment

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