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Do i keep her for the long term?

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  • Do i keep her for the long term?

    I have 2000 GXL - manual - turbo diesel. Had it 4 years & done 70000 kms with no issues - including a fair bit on outback road pulling a 1.5T offroad camper trailer (Kimberly). It's now done 260000kms. We have just retired and reckon we could enjoy this stuff for another 10 years. Usage estimate - another 150000 kms. We are wondering if we should sell and get a later model. I have 2 questions.
    Q1. What significant maintenance could I expect in that 10 years as we approach and go over the 400K mark ? Another timing belt is due now - not a big issue. Clutch? Engine? Injectors? Other?
    Q1. The car runs well but struggles when towing the trailer at 95 kmh up long hills. Furthermore I generally tow at around 95 kmh and the fuel economy is pretty ordinary 14-15 kms/100 L. Anything faster is worse. I get 12 when not towing. Is there any maintenance I could do or change/feature I could add to improve power on the hills and economy when towing? While I haven't driven a later model, I'm lead to believe they have more power and slightly better fuel economy.
    Thanks in anticipation. Frank.

  • #2
    Have you had the front end rebuilt yet? There's a lot of $$ involved.
    i'd forget about the economy side of things, sure the KZ likes a drink but even the D4D's get thirsty when towing at speed. And owners tend to tow st speed simply because they have the power to do so.
    Has she had any over heating issues? Had a new head? Rear suspension bushes, shocks etc?
    Ours has almost 520,000k and has had so many new bits I've lost count. I like the size of the 90 and the fact it doesn't have electronic gadgets.
    i think we'll keep her but eventually repower with a D4D.

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    • #3
      Q1: Yes/ Top end at least/ YES!/ probably a number of things in the suspensions and drivetrain. Let's face it , it is getting on, however you now have zero depreciation to worry about and you will likely spend a similar amount of money upgrading compared to repairing. I have chosen to hang onto mine as I now know it well, know it's weaknesses, know what I have repaired (and what will need to be repaired in the future as far as one can) and know that I can fix it without plugging it into the Mother$hip mainframe to tell me what ails it.
      Q1 (2): when you say it "struggles"; can I assume that you are towing in 4th? If not, add a gearbox rebuild to your list. The R151 box has the 5th gear hung off the back as an afterthought (not the same box as H series that you find in, say, 80series Cruisers). It will wear/fail if run under prolonged stress. Additionally, towing in 4th you may well find that it doesn't struggle up hills and you WILL find your fuel economy improves as you are not stuffing fuel into the engine to feed the boost. Your EGTs are lower, therefore less fuel being burnt. If towing is the main task fit 235/85R16 tyres for a 6% rev reduction and you will sit on 2300rpm in 4th at 93-95kmh. I do injectors every 100-120K or so, they are cheap enough. The old girl burns 15-17L/100 dragging the 2T poptop van around with aircon etc on. Fuel is not really a huge consideration in the long term cost of ownership when comparing diesel Prados, they all burn it at similar rates within a litre or three per 100K.
      cheers
      Steve
      Last edited by t303; 27-05-2018, 09:46 PM.

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      • #4
        To Carco & t303 thnx for yr detailed replies.
        the only work i have done is replacement of front & rear shockers, springs & rear suspwnsion bushes. No evidence of overheating

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        • #5
          ..oops - hit wrong button... continue...
          i too like the relative simplicity of the older model compared to complexity of late models.
          i wasn't aware of gear choice issue when towing and generally cruise in 5th dropping a gear as revs fall below 2000. Ill change my approach from now on. It sounds like my prado fuel usage when towing is pretty standard so I'll let that one go. I'll have a chat to my mechanic for ball park $$$ on some of those big ticket items likely to happen in the next 10 yrs/150000 kms but expect it to be considerably lower than cost of replacement with more recent model. Thnx again for yr comments. Frank

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          • #6
            it sounds like you've got one that is a winner , that has been without hardly any problems till now. mine also , with 270 on the clock,but as you say you've got nearly all factory parts and they will start to wear from here on. , im in the same boat with choosing , shall i keep her or roll her over for a later one. i think i will keep her for the next two years and see.

            right now im about to change front bearing and front disks , also just renovated (removed)the tow bar as surface rust was showing , and sure enough under the removed bar did need attention. im glad i went to the trouble . the spray tar for the under chassis is also on the cards as a project soon. the maintenance is an on going thing but one that you have to enjoy doing , otherwise it seems like a nightmare. .. i still enjoy my old girl even though she is a petrol , my fuel isnt a lot higher than what is mentioned above, so im generally happy ......... one thing though the newer models sure look good , and i imagine they have better seats!!! lol.

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            • #7
              Keep it, maintain it and it'll serve you well. 260k isn't massive kays. I had a manual 2000 RV kzj95r for 7 years and and sold it for 3 grand less than what I paid for it and it had 300k on the clock. Regretted it almost instantly after driving a lot of sub $30k used 4x4s that didn't drive as well. Solution? Bought another kzj95r, 2002 TX auto this time with 255k. Around this time last year, I basically drove around the entire perimeter of QLD including the Tip, Gulf and Birdsville with wife and two kids. Apart from some add on bits rattling loose and a cracked windscreen, we had zero issues. Couldn't say the same for a lot of modern common rail diesels we came across with fuel issues etc.

              This prado is even better than the last, with the auto and traction control. I love it. I'll upgrade when I pass it onto my son when he is old enough to drive (he's 11). I won't sell it.

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              • #8
                This one was posted a long time back, so this is just another opinion to consider if you're looking at this thread.

                My GXL is a 2001 and it had done 99,000 Highway kilometres when I purchased it in mid-2004. It’s now at 273,000. I've driven it gently with no hardcore off-road driving. I change the oil and oil filter every 5,000 Km, the air filter every 50,000 Km's (100,000 Km is the scheduled replacement), and I still get it serviced at the dealership to ensure it gets the fuel filter replaced by the book. The last couple of year's its only doing 1,500 Km per annum. It might never get to 300,000 Km.

                I'm friendly with a service dept guy at my Toyota dealership. He's told me repeatedly not to upgrade it to a new Prado. He says all the modern Prado's with common rail are nowhere near as robust or reliable. If I ever do sell it, he wants to buy it from me, and I have promised he will get the first option to buy it. Betsy as she's known, is still running all its original hoses. I have just decided after 20 years that the bottom rad hose looks like its near its end, so I have just replaced both rad hoses, new clamps, new thermostat and coolant. What I am doing now is having all the hoses checked for replacement as preventative maintenance. Once again, 20 years, all original hoses.

                I get the auto trans serviced every 50,000 Km. This is done at an auto trans specialist centre. He tells me that if he had to make a business repairing Prado gearboxes, he'd go broke. Because it’s now a low mileage vehicle, I replaced the timing belt under its scheduled interval because the last one was done 10 years ago.

                About 30,000 Km ago, my son kindly filled it with petrol and drove it until it shut down. It only cost $1,300 at the legendary Rankin Diesel in Bayswater who revived it with a clean out and a new set of injectors. They advised me if it had of been a modern common rail system, it might have gone bang, and Toyota would slug you approx $8,000 for a new common rail pump.

                A friend who is along-time diesel guy in the trade tells me that these old indirect (mechanical) injection fuel pumps are known to go at around the 350,00 Km mark.
                Like some of the other comments here, I am questioning how long to hold onto it, but with new hoses (and possibly new wheel bearings all around which I am considering), I’m betting it will run for a few years more. Fast she ain’t, but it’s still a smooth and comfortable drive that gives great confidence on any road surface.

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                • #9
                  Was that a mistake? 1500k per year?
                  I sold my 90 about a year ago. She'd done around 550,000k and as I'd kept up with maintenance, she was purring. Went to a family in the country who needed a big taxi for school duties. I have every confidence she'll be purring in another 500,000k.
                  Only reason I sold was my kids decided to upgrade and wanted to offload their 150. So I knew it's history, it's ecu was reflashed so she makes plenty of power, had new injectors and upgraded suspension.
                  The 150 is quieter, rides much better, corners and stops better and of course pulls like a train.
                  But the trade off is heaps of electronics and the expense of injectors every 150,000 odd k's.
                  Toyota really went downhill with interior trim quality in these later models. My 90's plastic bits were still perfect despite its many round Aus trips. Can't say the same about the 150, door pulls, gear knob etc lost colour very fast. Oil changes on the 150 are 10,000k V's 5,000 in the 90. But the 90 used Delo silver 40 and the 150 is full synthetic, so it balances out.
                  If you're happy with the 90, stick with her.
                  Their only fault is the cooling system but so long as you don't tow, most owners would have no trouble.

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                  • #10
                    Like others have said, if you're happy then stick with the 90 series. Would not trade mine in for a new one, don't have the cash anyway, but I'd sooner get another 90 series or 80 series than a modern one. More stuff you can fix yourself and the systems are simple. My 5VZ-FE petrol has been fine temperature wise with towing just a 1 ton camper but I would not like to tow any more. I only use up to 3rd gear (4 speed auto) as per the manual for towing.

                    If you're not happy with it though and can't upgrade it to add the features you want, then maybe it's time for a change, 260,000 km is "low mileage" for a 90 series.

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                    • #11
                      if your only doing 1500 kms a year now IMO it would be impossible to justify upgrading, as the 90 is running well it makes sense to keep it unless you have an need to say tow a 3 ton van or something the 90 cannot legally do.

                      I recently sold my Dec 2001 build VX, it had 185,000 kms on the clock, it was my tourer so it only did about 5,000 kms a year for the last decade, mind you it had a blower on it for the last 45,000

                      Lee
                      02 VX, Toyota Alloy Bar, IPF 900XS with 50 watt HID, 50 mm Lift- Lovell Shocks n Springs, Safari Snorkel, large Pioneer tray, Pioneer In-dash, Alpine roof mount DVD screen -handled the Simpson and Innaminka roads, now with a little TRD blower & Unichip

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                      • #12
                        The thing I found when towing is location.
                        Once you get West of Toowoomba, Rocky, Townsville etc the pace drops off.
                        You can see further, traffic is not so aggro and you can pull road speed back a bit.
                        Compare that to Pacific highway or similar, unless you're doing at least 110 uphill you have cranky drivers up your clacker.
                        The 90 isn't happy on those busy freeways but out in the sticks, she's right at home.

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                        • #13
                          No typo at all guys - One Thousand Five Hundred Kilometres each year and most of that is my annual camping trip. You're right about the towing. It's down to its whopping 96 KW of power, 343 NM and its four speed auto. I tend to sit it on 95-100Km/h on the freeway, to keep it on or under its peak torque at 2,100 RPM. In the last 20 years family and friends have all purchased and discarded everything from Holdens to Mercs, and Betsy just outlives them all. When I do get around to replacing it, the choice won't be easy. While I'm a Prado / Toyota fan, the vast array of sensors, electronic controls and DPF technology has changed my feelings about modern diesels, although there's nothing better than a good one with AWD as a touring proposition. I keep a quiet eye out for a 120 Series, and if I can locate one with low kilometres, I'd probably buy it. Preferably the 5 Speed which still retains the old indirect injection engine, but CRD if I had to. You're right Leethal, impossible to justify selling it while its just sitting in my garage semi-retired.

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                          • #14
                            Don't get too hung up about the 5-speed auto. It's just a 4-speed with closer ratios 1 to direct.
                            Overdrive is still that huge jump from direct same as your 90.
                            They obviously get off the mark faster, but that huge jump to O/D is nasty.
                            The 6-speed is double overdrive, 5th is just a touch over direct and 6th is your highway cruising gear with nice economy.

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