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  • Car Topper for 120 series with rails

    Hi PPers,
    My first shot at this so hope there is some one out there with some ideas.

    Having made the plunge with the 2008 vX prado to tow the van around Aussie I've just returned from the first excursion through the Territory. Despite pushing the load to the limit the Prado handled the van well and while 18.3 l/100km initially seemed daunting a check on a weighbridge showing a total weight of 5.4tonne made me feel a bit better!

    Now to the real problem. Fishing the top end without a tinnie proved to be frustrating or expensive ($96/ half day to hire a baby tinnie) so when I spotted a 3.7 m quintrex with a new 15 HP Suzuki on a good little trailer fro $2K I snapped it up with the view to putting the tinnie on top and the outboard in the back. For some reason I had in the back of my head that the Prado could handle 120kg on the roof so after loooking at every alternative (and realising that manually loading a 70kg tinnie on the roof might become a retirement nightmare) I decided to get a self loader. A model called the Tinnie Tosser made in southern Queensland appeared to be the answer but on ringing the manufacturer he informed me that the Prado in fact could only handle 80Kg on the roof and as his loader/rack weighed around 35-40kg (depending on whether it had its own winch motor) I would be well over the limit with my 70kg tinnie.

    So I have several questions for the experts or those that may have already got their tinnie on the Prado roof:

    1. How critical is the 80kg limit. It doesn't seem a lot and I'm wondering if its a limit set because of the roof's structural strength to take the weight or whether its related to the risk of making the vehicle top heavy or whether its related to the roof rails and their attachment points and risks of them tearing away????
    2. If the self loader and the Tinnie (lets say 105kg) is well beyond the Prado's capabilities what is my best option if in fact I have one at all?
    3. If I mounted three 1.05m cross bars (the tinnie's beam is 1.015m) to the Prado rails - firstly how do I mount them. The Rhino rack bars are much shorter and are fitted by a clamp mechanism that is tightened by a screw system accessed through the end of the bar. With considerably longer bars this might be difficult. And secondly I'm still left with the bigger problem of the roof rails ending some distance from the back of the roof meaning that I need some low weight solution of having a roller bar at the back that I can rest the tinnie against before hoisting it into the roof - even the thought of it makes the hernias grumble!.

    Would greatly appreciate any comment on the above.

    Josh

  • #2
    Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

    You would have to remove the north-south rails and fit the 3 bar HD racks from Toyota. You then get the 100kg carrying capacity. Note that the Toyota heavy duty bars are exactly the same as the Rhino, except way cheaper.

    The bar lengths are 1250mm and so will fit your tinnie. Rhino might have a side boat loader that could do the job. If they don't, I can fashion up something which allows you to load from the back. Rhino definitely has ladder rollers which mounts to the crossbars.

    I would make this contraption from Unistrut and attach it to the back 2 cross bars. So imagine a U-frame where the legs are running north-south. These legs are attached to the crossbars from the underside. Then the ladder rollers are attached to the crossbar. It would be very simple to make and would not cost a lot.

    If your Tinnie weighed 70kg, then 30kg should be plenty for the roofracks, new framework and accessories to load your tinnie.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

      The pic below is something that I quickly knocked up.

      The 3 green bars are the Rhino heavy Duty crossbars which will replace the roof rails on your Prado. As mentioned earlier, buy them from Toyota. See my post here.

      The purple structure is the new framework you will need to make to take the ladder rollers. You can go for Unistrut in hot dipped gal finish and have someone weld the 3 lengths together, and then bolt them underneath the rear 2 crossbars.

      The ladder roller is from Rhino. It is 1375mm long but from the fitting instructions, the roller and roller sleeve looks like it can be cut to length.

      The red pads are the Rhino Easy Guide pads.

      As for a winch, you would have to make up a small roller to attach to the front cross bar in the middle and then use a hex bar as a drive shaft out to the side so you can use a cordless drill to winch the tinnie up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

        Andrew, thank you for the comments and suggestions. You've made some terrific suggestions but left me with a few questions.
        1. the toyota HD 3 bar set for $282 - did that include mounting brackets that I presume fit where the rails come off? I made a blue with the boat width last night - its 1.505m - not 1.05m so do these HD bars come in lengths that are about 1.7m? I priced 1.8m rhino HD bars today and they were $90 each - no mounting brackets.
        2. why do you suppose the HD bars are rated at 20kg heavier than the rails?
        3. with the rails, three cross bars posed a problem because the rails are curved with the centre of the rails sitting about 10mm above the ends - silly design. I presume when you revert to the HD bars that they sit level?
        4. I like your suggestion about the rhino guides. I presume they are a teflon type material - do you know how much they are?
        5. I understand what you are suggesting regarding the back extension to mount the ladder roller. Where do you source the Unistrut that you suggest using - I couldn't find anything like it in Orange today. Is it a similar design to the HD bars and how much a metre is it? If it's cheaper why wouldn't you use it all around?
        6. as the tinnie has fairly straight sides I might get away with short rollers at the end of the rear bar. Again I priced the short Rhino roller today - it looked about 300mm wide and was $90 which I thought was pretty expensive.The full length roller must cost a bomb!

        Thank you agian for your suggestions and would much appreciate your suggestions on above.

        Regards, Josh

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

          Originally posted by Josh
          1. the toyota HD 3 bar set for $282 - did that include mounting brackets that I presume fit where the rails come off?
          Yes, it includes the feet which mounts to the same points as the factory rails, the legs, and the cross bars.
          I made a blue with the boat width last night - its 1.505m - not 1.05m so do these HD bars come in lengths that are about 1.7m?
          The default length for the Prado is 1.25m from Toyota or Rhino. However Rhino do sell longer ones and your local roof rack store should be able to swap them over and you pay the difference.
          I priced 1.8m rhino HD bars today and they were $90 each - no mounting brackets.
          I bought 2m lengths for $85, which is the cross bar plus the rubber buffer strip.
          2. why do you suppose the HD bars are rated at 20kg heavier than the rails?
          I think it has got to do with the weight of the factory rails itself. The 100kg rating is the capacity including any roof rail that mounts onto the 3 fixing points. Once you put crossbars onto the rails, the distance between the 2 crossbars is reduced compared to the distance between the 1st and 3rd HD bar. This reduction in distance causes the loss in capacity.
          3. with the rails, three cross bars posed a problem because the rails are curved with the centre of the rails sitting about 10mm above the ends - silly design. I presume when you revert to the HD bars that they sit level?
          Yes, that is correct.
          4. I like your suggestion about the rhino guides. I presume they are a teflon type material - do you know how much they are?
          More info is available from the Rhino website or ring Rhino HQ in Sydney. The staff know their stuff very well. They are RRP $32/pr.
          5. I understand what you are suggesting regarding the back extension to mount the ladder roller. Where do you source the Unistrut that you suggest using - I couldn't find anything like it in Orange today.
          You can get it from electrical wholesalers like MM Electrical, Turks, Lawrence & Hanson, etc.
          Is it a similar design to the HD bars and how much a metre is it?
          The Rhino HD bars is actually based on the Unistrut design. Instead of an H-cross section, it is a U-cross section. It is also available in half height versions. It comes in steel, stainless steel and aluminium. Checkout http://www.unistrut.com.au. Normal steel Unistrut (zinc plated) is about $65 per 6m length.
          If it's cheaper why wouldn't you use it all around?
          The steel unistrut is cheap but it is heavy. I chose to use the Rhino HD bars for my roof platform to reduce as much weight as possible. Aluminium Unistrut however have thinner walls and aren't as heavy duty as the steel versions.
          6. as the tinnie has fairly straight sides I might get away with short rollers at the end of the rear bar. Again I priced the short Rhino roller today - it looked about 300mm wide and was $90 which I thought was pretty expensive.The full length roller must cost a bomb!
          According to the website, the 1650mm roller is $110rrp. The shortest length on the website is 540mm and costs $65rrp. You might be getting more expensive quotes because you are in Orange.
          Thank you agian for your suggestions and would much appreciate your suggestions on above.

          Regards, Josh
          No problems. Also refer to my custom roof platform thread for extra info.
          viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6773&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

            Thanks Andrew for going to the trouble you have to answer my queries. It is much appreciated.
            Regards,
            Josh

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

              Just having a bit more of a think costwise, you could price up the 3-bar set with 1650 long cross bars. OR buy the 3-bar set from Toyota and 3x 1650 crossbars separately. You can then use the Toyota bars as the frame extension for the rear.

              The Rhino HD bars come in the following lengths (mm) and RRP.
              1120 $65
              1250 $68
              1375 $72
              1500 $79
              1650 $85
              1800 $93
              2000 $98
              2400 $108

              So if the Rhino 3 bar set is $480 with 1250 bars, the upgrade cost would be $17x3=$51 bring the total to $531. You then add $70 odd for 6metres of unistrut for the rear structure. Then some extra charge for powder coating.

              If you bought the Toyota set for $282 and 3x1650mm, the total is $537. You then need to add another $85 for the 1650mm bar for the attachment of the ladder roller. The unused 3x 1250mm bars you can use to build the rear structure.

              If you went down the path of the Toyota 3 bar set, you'll end up with an all aluminium construction, which means it will be lighter in weight.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

                Again, many thanks Andrew
                Regards, Josh

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

                  Andrew, back again. It seems life in the area of Prado roof rails was never meant to be easy. Toyota Orange had no idea whether the factory roof rails on a VX Prado were easy to remove and seemed to think that the roof liner had to be taken out to access them - no thank you. They sent me to their panel beater who also had no idea. Then went to ARB again without luck. Rang ARB Moorebank and they seemed to think it was all possible but couldn't tell me how.
                  So do you or any other PPers know how to get the rails off. If possible to do this without removing roof liner will I be left with a gap around the, to be fitted, heavy duty Toyota roof bars.
                  The only starting point I can see with the rails is a pair of screws front and back on the underside of the rails. I'm guessing that if removed this may allow the front rail mounts to be slid forward and the rear ones to be slid backwads. Once removed then maybe the centre mount also slides although you'd think there would be a locking mechanism somewhere to stop any sliding motion when loaded????

                  A frustrated Josh

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

                    viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6749&p=95768&hilit=grande+roof +rails+remove&sid=f628b8c5e12871e2cfc7dbefb58395fc #p95768

                    I decided against having the tinnie on the roof due to having to pack/unpack every launch and getting salt water and crap on the roof from a day out. Cheaper and easier to buy a fold-up trailer http://www.realezytrailers.com.au/
                    [url=http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=12264]My Prado[/url]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Car Topper for 120 series with rails

                      Hi Josh,

                      I put the HD bars on my Grande. The roof rails come off easily. Here is a thread on it.
                      viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3841&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hi lit=grande+rails

                      Comment

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