ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

I have just got back from ARB in Canning Vale looking at the Deluxe Winch Bullbar.

The sales guy made two statements, one of which I know is wrong, the other I've not heard before so was wondering on the veracity of this. The two statements were:

1. There are two 'rated' recovery points on the bullbar - I know from another thread and from a statement I got from the ARB technical team that they are classed as tow points and are not 'rated' recovery points.

2. The fog lights on my GXL will fit the fog light mount in the bar so I don't need to get their foglights.

Can anyone tell me if you can fit the genuine Toyota foglights in the deluxe bullbar?

Thanks

[timmay5.7 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close timmay5.7]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Are you sure about that bullbar recovery point statement?
I know the prado loops are not rated, but I was under the impression that the bull bar points were?

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Are you sure about that bullbar recovery point statement?
I know the prado loops are not rated, but I was under the impression that the bull bar points were?

Yes, I am sure - this is the statement I got from ARB:

"Thanks very much for the opportunity to address this very important issue.

First and foremost, all 4x4 owners need to be aware that there is no rating system for 4x4 recovery points. There’s no Australian standard, no ADR or state regulation either.

The only regulations in force on recovery gear (in Australia) are in Queensland and that relates to recovery straps only, and not what they are attached to. ARB’s straps of course comply with all aspects of these regulations, which refer to minimum breaking loads rather than load ratings.

We supply rated shackles, and there is Australian standards coverage for these, as they are from a range of products sourced from industrial lifting gear suppliers. Several magazines have done really good articles in recent years on how strong these shackles are and how much safety margin is built into them. That margin means that the point at which these items fail must be at least six times the stated Working Load Limit (WLL) (Australian Standard AS2741- 2002). That’s exactly the sort of safety margin you want to know is in force when you walk along a city street with a crane working on a building high above you. They simply cannot be allowed to fail.

Great, I can hear you saying, let’s apply the same safety factor to our recovery points.

Bit of a problem there, I’m afraid.

Take your Prado 120 as an example. Its kerb weight is 2.17 tonnes, Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) is 2.9 tonnes. Say we want to provide a recovery point for this vehicle with a safety factor of 6 times that can be used with a snatch strap that has a minimum breaking strength of 8 tonnes. Then that point needs to survive a test load of 17.4 tonnes because that’s the total weight of the vehicle multiplied by 6 and over the break load of the strap (we always want the strap to break rather than break what it’s attached to).

But wait! What if the vehicle has a caravan on when it requires recovery, say in a boggy caravan park after a storm. That vehicle can have a 2500kg trailer/caravan as well, so now our recovery point needs to be surviving a load of 32.4 tonnes.

I can tell you that a recovery point that can survive that sort of load is a serious chunk of metal and there are a lot of vehicles where it would be difficult to find a point on the chassis strong enough to mount such a device, let alone survive the test.

Now, for all you mechanical engineers out there, you will understand that the load required to pull a vehicle is less than that required to lift it. However, we are hypothesising on application of lifting standards here (so hence that approach), but do not discount the off road situations we all encounter, the ledges we might be up against, the suction of a boggy mud hole, and the often less than straight-on direction of a recovery operation. For these reasons it is valid to want to have a safety factor. We definitely do not want hardware breakages anytime, anywhere.

I need to get off my soapbox, don’t I?

Your ARB Prado bar, even if it is not a winch capable bar, is designed as a winch bar initially and fully tested for winching with the largest winch that will fit. This design includes a replacement for the factory tow point which is engineered to be strong enough to anchor the winch rope hook in a double line pull recovery operation. It is also suitable for towing the vehicle and light duty strap recovery.

I’m pleased to say also that the last time I was on this particular soapbox, I was at a meeting to discuss ARB developing an industry standard for vehicle recovery points. This is a work in progress within our development engineering team so stay tuned for some exciting new products and industry leading practices in the near future.

Kind regards,

Greg Milton
(National Product & Services Manager)"

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

I am only actually looking for an answer to the foglight question, but to be complete on the recovery points, I also got this from ARB:

"Thanks for you email regarding your Prado.

The ARB bar comes with towing eyes in the mount frame, these are design for flat towing as the Prado does not come with any such points from the factory. Being a winch bull bar, this bar has been tested to withstand the stresses and strains of warn winches.

Winches are quite different too a snatch recovery when it come to loads place on the bull bar. The winch has a “stall” point that prevents over loading at the winches capability so that the winch is operated with in its capability, where as a snatch recovery can have an uncontrolled load placed on the recovery points of the bogged vehicle. The load on the bogged vehicle is completely dependant on the recovering vehicle’s speed and the ability of the snatch strap to stretch and recoil with in its limits. Most snatch straps are rated to 8000kg breaking strain in comparison to a winches maximum load of 4100kg for a 9000lb winch.

In practice the two towing points on the mount frame of the ARB bar can be used in a recovery situation where a bridal is used to share the load between the tow points and the recovering vehicle is driven at a very moderate speed to tow the vehicle out rather then snatch it out.

I hope this helps, if you have any further questions please call and I’d be happy to answer them.

Regards,

John Ludlam
Sales Manager WA"

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

1 & 2 are both wrong

I believe ARB bars don't have the tow/winch/recovery points on them anymore.

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

1 & 2 are both wrong

I believe ARB bars don't have the tow/winch/recovery points on them anymore.

He did show me one with the tow points on but I did wonder about the foglights as I have never seen an ARB bar with Toyota foglights plus the ARB 120 price list has two prices for foglights (one where Toyota fogs are fitted and one without) - I thought the two prices allowed for the additional cabling and switch if they weren't factory fitted.

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Morning,

The 120 Fog's do not fit the Fog Light Surround.

You DO need the ARB Fog.

Giles

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Morning,

The 120 Fog's do not fit the Fog Light Surround.

You DO need the ARB Fog.

Giles

Thanks Giles, I thought this would be the case.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Stock lamps are rectangular whereas the ARB has provision for round lights via the circular cutout.

[8608 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close 8608]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

the 'tow' points on the bar can bend when used for recovery. one of mine is bent.

[ryancal Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ryancal]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

hi all sorry hijack the post, i want to get a ARB deluxe bar but the other half just keeps putting it off now she want to know how far the bar come out from the front grill. so if one of you guys could whip out the tape and let me know that would be great. also would fitting the bar with stock springs cause it to float in the front end.
thanks ryan

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

hi all sorry hijack the post, i want to get a ARB deluxe bar but the other half just keeps putting it off now she want to know how far the bar come out from the front grill. so if one of you guys could whip out the tape and let me know that would be great. also would fitting the bar with stock springs cause it to float in the front end.
thanks ryan

Ryan
200 mm from bottom of th grill to front of the bar (excluding winch)

I believe ARB bars don't have the tow/winch/recovery points on them anymore.

NOW!
As for the ARB bars not having tow/winch return points/ snatch points for a 120 series, well I'm gonna get real pissed if they now don't. I bought a deluxe winch bar in Nov 2010. If they have updated it they better have a retro fit option. I was extremely annoyed at the time when ARB would not rate there points, yet designed the bar so rated points could not be added. To put this in perspective, most of my after market options which are substantial are ARB and up to this point I'm very happy with them, just this point is a major pet annoyance and my third Prado will not have any ARB accessories if ARB just turn a blind eye to what I perceive is lack of thinking on this issue.

Ok off my soap box and waiting to see what they do on this issue. $9k to ARB on the 90 series and a shit load more on the current 2009 120 series may be the last I spend there, especially if I find out the change happened on or near Nov 2010!!!!!

Where is my gun anyway? :evil:

[ryancal Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ryancal]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

hi all sorry hijack the post, i want to get a ARB deluxe bar but the other half just keeps putting it off now she want to know how far the bar come out from the front grill. so if one of you guys could whip out the tape and let me know that would be great. also would fitting the bar with stock springs cause it to float in the front end.
thanks ryan

Ryan
200 mm from bottom of th grill to front of the bar (excluding winch)

I believe ARB bars don't have the tow/winch/recovery points on them anymore.

is that from the steel work or to the black rubber bumper bits. it is for a 120 s as well

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

Add 15mm for the rubber, yes definitely a 120, so 215mm

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

Re: ARB Deluxe Bullbar Question

hi guys i installed mine in sept 2010 , it has recovery points, they are bolted to the side of the chassis rails that the bar is mounted to if you can bend or break them then you should think seriously about what you are doing and maybe by a bulldozer. in the mounting instructions it states that it will add 200mm to the front of the car . i have just measured mine , from the chrome grill to the end of the rubber over riders it measures 255mm or 10 inches .