Matty80
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Re: Rust protection
In keeping with that this topic seems to be about - that is "Rust Protection", not specifically ERPS but certainly inclusive, I have decided that indepth discussion on how the system mechanics, electromagnetism, electronics, electric potential, etc is not important, but a basic understanding must be achieved.
What is important is whether or not they do what they claim to do or not. Suffice to say that whether you use one or not is your own choice! I cannot (and will not) comment, however, on the quality or suitablity of individual units from any manufacturer. I will say that a correctly designed system that is installed in the correct way and maintained to a high operational standard will reduce the amount oxidation that occurs over the life of a vehicle (or any other plant machinery, such as, but not limited to trailers & caravans).
My original explaination, is not fully correct. I had thought at the time, it would be enough to quell the idea of a battery not being sitable, I'll open the idea further with more detail and less generalisation.
I will clarify a few terms first:
The ideal theory behind how one of these small electronic units works is to turn the body of the car into a capacitor. This reduces the effects of electrolysis by 'negatively charging' the cars metal framework, this increase in electrons hinders the chemical reactions that cause rust, details of which are outside of the scope of this post.
A misconception of this unit is that the pads are 'electrically connected' to the cars body, however, this is not the case such as you would find with a body earth or mounting bolt for a bracket. The term connected, in this case, refers to the pads being stuck to the body using adhesive, and requiring no removal of existing paint work. These 'capacitive couplers' (or pads) form the basics of a completed capacitor, the car body (negative conductor), the adhesive (dieletric insulator), and a metalic film contained within the pad (positive poductor).
The 'electronically controlled' module varies the potential difference applied to the capacitive couplers. The couplers are wired in parallel to each other, allowing the module to control each individually to another. This allows the module to meticulously control and measure the capacitance at each coupler by increasing/decreasing the potential difference, all within a very specific and limited range which in turn creates an electrostatic charge (via capacitive coupling) also within a very specific and limited range.
The adhesive couplers are as important to the systems operation and the control module itself, and signs of wear or a failure of the adhesive material will affect the effectiveness of the unit.
In summary, these components serve to induce a measured and specific negative electrostatic surface charge on the metal surface being protected (your vehicle's body for instance) thus capacitive coupling treats the metal body as if it were the negative half of a capacitor. This negative surface charge serves to interfere with the normal electrochemical corrosion processes that create corrosion on metals.
It is important to note, that this system alone will not adequately protect your car. As demonstrated in an unofficial blog post I stubbled across on the net in our seach for a simple explaination. The person who performed the test, even states that their knowledge on the mechanics of the problem is lacking. However, the photos included over days demonstrate the effectiveness of an ERPS.
Rust Protection Experiment
I am yet to see a car battery do anything of the above, and while you explainations are correct in which metals react more or less with other metals, it can only be applied to metals that are in contact with each other. And if the lead from a battery is in contact with the steel body work of your car - there are much bigger issues that surface and penetration rust issues within the body work.
The cost of the system cannot be compared with simpler, maybe even backyard, ideas for rust protection.
Weight consideration within vehicles is a large part of design, adding a kg of zinc bar is not practical not efficient - as ideally the larger the surface area contact the better the protection provided and this is achieved, practically, by having zinc moulded around a piece of flat bar and then welded to the surface if the equipment being protected. I doubt many people will want this option for their pride and joy. It should not be considered that a 1:1 ratio of zinc oxidation to iron oxidation.
Incorrect. Your general understanding of electrical and the operation of an ERPS have become confused and intertwined. We must move this discussion away from the battery, it is not, will never be, and cannot be used in any way to reduce the rate at which oxidation occurs. It is only a battery.
I am not even sure what you are impling here, it is confusing and net very well thought out - the efficiencies of a battery are not relevant, and regardless of efficiency the 'waste' is not available for use somewhere else???. The ERPS will weigh in at approximately the same as a BCDC1220 battery charger from redarc, the weight of the small cables minor and the adhesive couplers not even worth considering. Voltage drop CANNOT cause and explosion, only a spark or pressure can cause an explosion.
As a finishing note - I will not enter into further discussion regarding the battery, or kg's of zinc being added to a car's panel work as a viable alternative for a small electronic unit. My original post was indicitive of just that the electronic rust protection systems work and that a battery would not - this has infact become well and truely out of control. I find myself wondering why I ever openned my mouth at all.... Too think that this post has only touched on the basics of how this sytem works and already 2 pages in length.
Cheers Matt
In keeping with that this topic seems to be about - that is "Rust Protection", not specifically ERPS but certainly inclusive, I have decided that indepth discussion on how the system mechanics, electromagnetism, electronics, electric potential, etc is not important, but a basic understanding must be achieved.
What is important is whether or not they do what they claim to do or not. Suffice to say that whether you use one or not is your own choice! I cannot (and will not) comment, however, on the quality or suitablity of individual units from any manufacturer. I will say that a correctly designed system that is installed in the correct way and maintained to a high operational standard will reduce the amount oxidation that occurs over the life of a vehicle (or any other plant machinery, such as, but not limited to trailers & caravans).
Originally posted by Matty & Loz
I will clarify a few terms first:
- Rust refers specifically to iron oxide, the by product of the process oxidation which is created by chemical reaction between iron/steel and oxygen.[/*:72lrpx63]
- The terms 'Protection' and 'Provention' do not adequately explain the nature of what the system does, as oxidation CANNOT be prevented. However, an ERPS does slow the process, but must be used in conjuction with other metal protection methods - such as painting & cleaning.[/*:72lrpx63]
- Specific formulae for the oxidation process, potential differences during the process and other scientific details are outside the scope of this post.[/*:72lrpx63]
The ideal theory behind how one of these small electronic units works is to turn the body of the car into a capacitor. This reduces the effects of electrolysis by 'negatively charging' the cars metal framework, this increase in electrons hinders the chemical reactions that cause rust, details of which are outside of the scope of this post.
A misconception of this unit is that the pads are 'electrically connected' to the cars body, however, this is not the case such as you would find with a body earth or mounting bolt for a bracket. The term connected, in this case, refers to the pads being stuck to the body using adhesive, and requiring no removal of existing paint work. These 'capacitive couplers' (or pads) form the basics of a completed capacitor, the car body (negative conductor), the adhesive (dieletric insulator), and a metalic film contained within the pad (positive poductor).
The 'electronically controlled' module varies the potential difference applied to the capacitive couplers. The couplers are wired in parallel to each other, allowing the module to control each individually to another. This allows the module to meticulously control and measure the capacitance at each coupler by increasing/decreasing the potential difference, all within a very specific and limited range which in turn creates an electrostatic charge (via capacitive coupling) also within a very specific and limited range.
The adhesive couplers are as important to the systems operation and the control module itself, and signs of wear or a failure of the adhesive material will affect the effectiveness of the unit.
In summary, these components serve to induce a measured and specific negative electrostatic surface charge on the metal surface being protected (your vehicle's body for instance) thus capacitive coupling treats the metal body as if it were the negative half of a capacitor. This negative surface charge serves to interfere with the normal electrochemical corrosion processes that create corrosion on metals.
It is important to note, that this system alone will not adequately protect your car. As demonstrated in an unofficial blog post I stubbled across on the net in our seach for a simple explaination. The person who performed the test, even states that their knowledge on the mechanics of the problem is lacking. However, the photos included over days demonstrate the effectiveness of an ERPS.
Rust Protection Experiment
Originally posted by prado_chia
Originally posted by prado_chia
Originally posted by prado_chia
Originally posted by prado_chia
Originally posted by prado_chia
As a finishing note - I will not enter into further discussion regarding the battery, or kg's of zinc being added to a car's panel work as a viable alternative for a small electronic unit. My original post was indicitive of just that the electronic rust protection systems work and that a battery would not - this has infact become well and truely out of control. I find myself wondering why I ever openned my mouth at all.... Too think that this post has only touched on the basics of how this sytem works and already 2 pages in length.
Cheers Matt
Differing opinions and understanding levels.
Good discussion.
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