Air locker question

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

What do you recommend then as most 80w90 are LSD oils as well?

I changed my seals a while ago and ARB recommended 85W-140, which is what I used.

Cheers Andrew

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

What do you recommend then as most 80w90 are LSD oils as well?

There is 80w-90 castrol that does not have the LSD additives. I think it's the standard 80w-90

But,

Arb manager recommends castrol multitrax.

I use Penrite oils, Penrite trans gear, 75w-90
It's fine for where 80w oils are recommended.
I use that in manual gearboxes & transfer case also.

One of the best you can get, Penrite pro gear 85w -140, could be the goods, but after a man with more experience on it than anyone else I have met, said multitrax & or 75w or 80w oils, no lsd oil, it affects the seal, I stick to that grade.

[AussieAndy Find all posts View Profile Close AussieAndy]

There is 80w-90 castrol that does not have the LSD additives. I think it's the standard 80w-90

But,

Arb manager recommends castrol multitrax.

I use Penrite oils, Penrite trans gear, 75w-90
It's fine for where 80w oils are recommended.
I use that in manual gearboxes & transfer case also.

One of the best you can get, Penrite pro gear 85w -140, could be the goods, but after a man with more experience on it than anyone else I have met, said multitrax & or 75w or 80w oils, no lsd oil, it affects the seal, I stick to that grade.

Castrol Axle EPX80W90 is what you are referring too ####, what we use in Air Locker centres and open centre diffs in light commercial and 4wd vehicles. Unless you are doing a lot of towing or heavy load on the diffs, then step up to Castrol Axle EPX85W140. It resists burning a bit better and resists higher hyploid loading (the loading between crow wheel and pinion gears) but at the cost of very very slightly worse fuel consumption.

[ARB 4X4 Accessories Corporate Member Find all posts View Profile Close ARB 4X4 Accessories]

Thanks for the replies guys, I ended up taking it to ARB , they are replacing the seals under warranty. They said it is common with poorly installed pneumatic seals . He said they should last for years but will eventually wear out. Interesting.....
Cheers
Phil

Hi Phil, in actual fact ARB seals should be good for several hundred thousand km's. It is extremely rare, and only in cases of running with excessively high levels of contaminants in the oil (like from a bearing failure) that has been driven on for some distance afterwards that we ever see one of our seals with any wear. It's just that the material is so tough that it should actually wear deeper into the nodular iron than wear into the seal material.

If you would to verify this for yourself, then gently measure the cross section of the seal with a vernier caliper (i.e gently = don't squish it). If you get 2.54mm or more then your seal is still within factory specs of 'as new'. If the only problem you are having is the appearance of oil at the solenoid then your problem is not likely to be related to seal wear, as oil is thicker than air, and so your seals would leak air before they would ever leak oil.

Oil at the solenoid can be caused by simple damage to the sealing surfaces during install (as mention by someone else in this thread), or from a seal housing that is not installed concentric to the diff. It can even be caused by a sub-standard machine finish on the parts. Again, this is all rare, and fixable under warranty (or it can be carefully polished with some very fine 'wet & dry').


Again, we wouldn't even expect the seals running on a rough surface to result in significant wear. They are just that tough. But we have seen seals fail from some other issues, like cuts in the seal from rough handling, or dirt behind the seals. Pull them through your fingers under a bit of tension to make sure you don't feel anything but smoothness.

Additionally, heat will not hurt your Air Locker seals. You'll start to turn your diff oil into tar before you'll ever melt a seal

There is 80w-90 castrol that does not have the LSD additives. I think it's the standard 80w-90

But,

Arb manager recommends castrol multitrax.

I use Penrite oils, Penrite trans gear, 75w-90
It's fine for where 80w oils are recommended.
I use that in manual gearboxes & transfer case also.

One of the best you can get, Penrite pro gear 85w -140, could be the goods, but after a man with more experience on it than anyone else I have met, said multitrax & or 75w or 80w oils, no lsd oil, it affects the seal, I stick to that grade.

Hey ####, unfortunately it isn't a case of one oil fits all applications. It comes down to the climate you live in and the nature of what you use your vehicle for. 85W-140 is good for almost everywhere in Australia, but it would only be a summer oil in Canada. Castrol Multitrax is an API GL-5 - and that is the minimum requirement for a differential oil, but if you use your vehicle hard then it gets trickier - like a straight GL-5 is usually better than a combo GL-4/GL-5 oil, as GL-4's have un-required additional additives for protecting transmission synchros. And synthetics are especially good at coping with a wide temperature range where as mineral oils needs to be fairly focused on specific climates.

There are performance qualifications well above GL-5 that will pay dividends if you push your vehicle hard; like SAE J2360, and API MT-1. Regardless of the brand names, if it has SAE J2360 or MT-1 certification then it has met some stringent performance test levels that a straight GL-5 by any brand could not meet.

We publish a guide to help with working out whether you need to dig any deeper when you buy your oil:

http://www.arb.com.au/assets/air-lockers/6-01.pdf

Hopefully that goes some way in explaining both situations.

Cheers
Dave

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Hi Phil, in actual fact ARB seals should be good for several hundred thousand km's. It is extremely rare, and only in cases of running with excessively high levels of contaminants in the oil (like from a bearing failure) that has been driven on for some distance afterwards that we ever see one of our seals with any wear. It's just that the material is so tough that it should actually wear deeper into the nodular iron than wear into the seal material.

If you would to verify this for yourself, then gently measure the cross section of the seal with a vernier caliper (i.e gently = don't squish it). If you get 2.54mm or more then your seal is still within factory specs of 'as new'. If the only problem you are having is the appearance of oil at the solenoid then your problem is not likely to be related to seal wear, as oil is thicker than air, and so your seals would leak air before they would ever leak oil.

Oil at the solenoid can be caused by simple damage to the sealing surfaces during install (as mention by someone else in this thread), or from a seal housing that is not installed concentric to the diff. It can even be caused by a sub-standard machine finish on the parts. Again, this is all rare, and fixable under warranty (or it can be carefully polished with some very fine 'wet & dry').


Again, we wouldn't even expect the seals running on a rough surface to result in significant wear. They are just that tough. But we have seen seals fail from some other issues, like cuts in the seal from rough handling, or dirt behind the seals. Pull them through your fingers under a bit of tension to make sure you don't feel anything but smoothness.

Additionally, heat will not hurt your Air Locker seals. You'll start to turn your diff oil into tar before you'll ever melt a seal




Hey ####, unfortunately it isn't a case of one oil fits all applications. It comes down to the climate you live in and the nature of what you use your vehicle for. 85W-140 is good for almost everywhere in Australia, but it would only be a summer oil in Canada. Castrol Multitrax is an API GL-5 - and that is the minimum requirement for a differential oil, but if you use your vehicle hard then it gets trickier - like a straight GL-5 is usually better than a combo GL-4/GL-5 oil, as GL-4's have un-required additional additives for protecting transmission synchros. And synthetics are especially good at coping with a wide temperature range where as mineral oils needs to be fairly focused on specific climates.

There are performance qualifications well above GL-5 that will pay dividends if you push your vehicle hard; like SAE J2360, and API MT-1. Regardless of the brand names, if it has SAE J2360 or MT-1 certification then it has met some stringent performance test levels that a straight GL-5 by any brand could not meet.

We publish a guide to help with working out whether you need to dig any deeper when you buy your oil:

http://www.arb.com.au/assets/air-lockers/6-01.pdf

Hopefully that goes some way in explaining both situations.

Cheers
Dave

We all appreciate your input Dave.
So in your opinion, in diffs equipt with your lockers, in the southern states, you would prefer 85w -140 over multitrax or other 75w-90 or 80w-90 oils?

Also do you agree with "dont use LSD oils, the additives affect the seal"?

Cheers,

####.