Clutch failure

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Hey guys

Not happy and there might be some lessons in this for those of you who have the 6 speed manual Prado.

My clutch has failed and when the gearbox was removed, the bell housing was apparently chockers full of mud. My first question was, well how the hell did it get past the cover plates etc. The answer was well we don't know but you must have been doing some four wheel driving because we had to use a gernie to get the mud out of the belly plates doh!! but he did say that there was still some life left in the plate, jeez I would expect so after only 80K.

Anyway, typical Toyota, it appears that there are no clutch plates or bearings in Oz so we are looking at ex Japan and there may not be any warranty and I can't imagine how many of these Prados have been sold in Oz. It was always my belief that once a model was introduced that spare parts were to be available.

Anyone that has been near mud and water in their 6 speed had better start pulling the cover plates off their bell housings to check for mud ingress cos it ain't going to be pretty and it is looking like it will be an expensive fix.

Some time ago I recall a pradopointer had bought a complete engine & gearbox out of a D4D to put the engine in his 90 series. I have done a search and can't find the appropriate post but was wondering if the clutch assembly was still available, can anyone point me in the right direction here please?

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Clutch failure

#1 rule in mud - don't change gears, there's usually a clutch breather hole and that will suck in loads of mud if you change gears (speaking from experience in the Mav I used to own)

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Re: Clutch failure

Only gear changing I can think of would have maybe at some time going from forward to reverse to get a better line :?

[2003GXL Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 2003GXL]

Re: Clutch failure

Help Help I need information about D4D into 90 series prado

This was pradofreak, It is i the 90 series or ust type in pradfreak in the serach are.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: Clutch failure

Jacto,

Sorry to hear. hope it all work out ok.

The 90 conversion is here

The user is pradofreak.

Google advanced search is much better than phpbb search for this kind of thing...

Good luck with it.

Michael

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Re: Clutch failure

I have just been reading an earlier post viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5006 of which I originally missed and basically I have had this a couple of times but the problem seemed to go away. The clutch appeared as though it was slipping and then it went away and as you all know that it is difficult to present a problem to a dealer when it is not there.

Anyway, I wished I had seen this earlier as it might have alerted me to a potential problem and prevented the failure of the clutch. So anyone who has suspected that their clutch might be slipping, take notice that it will fail!! :roll: :roll:

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Re: Clutch failure

Well Guys we have the car back finally and Toyota knocked back the warranty on the clutch. They are claiming that the mud caused it to fail so it is in the hands of Fair Trading who for what it is worth cannot believe that warranty did not apply. :cry:

Fair Trading's official word to me was that yes the clutch is covered in the implied 100,000km warranty and there was not any written exclusion of the clutch. There is also the issue that Toyota Australia refused to allow the dealer to fit any aftermarket parts in the repair, thus implying also that the repair was being effected under warranty. There was an aftermarket pressure plate and bearing available, which would have been overnight delivery and the clutch plate was available as a genuine part. In effect the vehicle could have been back on the road several days prior to the finished date. :x :x

The other issue now is that nobody can tell me how sufficient mud managed to get into the bell housing to do the damage it did and I really take offence when asked the question "oh you must have been four wheel driving" :shock:

I am currently pricing up an auto and if that doesn't come off then the new Nissan Patrol is looking better and better (depends on the power plant)

[Golly Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Golly]

Re: Clutch failure

Thats shit Jacto!, hopefully someone can give us an answer to the manual boxes and water/mud ingestion as I would like to guard against it if possible.
Stick with the Pradoooo buddy, dont go the Pootrol mate. Chin up bud, hope it goes well with fair trading and the dealer coughs up the cash back. 8)

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Re: Clutch failure

Thanks Golly

Actually the clutch was fairly cheap and really surprised me considering it was genuine parts, came in at $1395 fitted but it is the principle of the matter now and the lack of confidence if I ever want to tow my camper trailer up to the Cape or across the Simpson where the gearbox might get a good work out.

I have looked at the box and cannot see where mud could get in as the two side plates shouldn't let it in and then there is the slave cylinder mechanism that goes through the bell housing but these things are sold as 4WD vehicles and are used every day in mud and 4WD locked in within the mining industry and would cop a hell of a lot more crap than I could ever put it through.
I don't think it is good enough for the reason to be dropped and say "I wouldn't have a clue", there needs to be some investigation as to why so we can put preventative measures in place to stop it occurring.

I just hope there are eyes reading these posts because there is a problem somewhere and all those guys with manuals I think need to take the side covers off the bell housing if they ever think they might have been in anything that looked really sloppy. Mind you, I don't know how it could be cleaned/washed out given there is not a drain bung that I could see :? :?

[matty Member Find all posts View Profile Close matty]

Re: Clutch failure

My brother who has a 08GX manual has just had some problems with his clutch at 30000k :shock: and seems toyota are telling him its a wear and tear issue :evil: , i could understand if it was a SS commodore, but its a 4wd!

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: Clutch failure

Thanks Golly

Actually the clutch was fairly cheap and really surprised me considering it was genuine parts, came in at $1395 fitted but it is the principle of the matter now and the lack of confidence if I ever want to tow my camper trailer up to the Cape or across the Simpson where the gearbox might get a good work out.

I have looked at the box and cannot see where mud could get in as the two side plates shouldn't let it in and then there is the slave cylinder mechanism that goes through the bell housing but these things are sold as 4WD vehicles and are used every day in mud and 4WD locked in within the mining industry and would cop a hell of a lot more crap than I could ever put it through.
I don't think it is good enough for the reason to be dropped and say "I wouldn't have a clue", there needs to be some investigation as to why so we can put preventative measures in place to stop it occurring.

I just hope there are eyes reading these posts because there is a problem somewhere and all those guys with manuals I think need to take the side covers off the bell housing if they ever think they might have been in anything that looked really sloppy. Mind you, I don't know how it could be cleaned/washed out given there is not a drain bung that I could see :? :?

$1395 fitted? Ouch.

Sourced new clutch for my 90 series v6. After searching the WWW, turns out Coventry's had best price at $267 for complete kit. Had to get spigot bearing from Toyota at $65. Fitting cost $400 and included replacing rear engine mainseal and light skim of flywheel.

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: Clutch failure

So basically Toyota have admitted that you cannot use manual Prado's in mud. If it was ok to use manual Prado's in mud they would have honored the warranty. I'd like to know under exactly what grounds Toyota have dishonored the warranty for this because unless they've specified what types of use void the warranty, they should cover faults in the vehicle build. "Mud in the clutch assembly" is not a good enough excuse. They need to tell you why "mud in the clutch assembly" voids the warranty. If mud shouldn't be in there then that's Toyota's problem, not the customers. I suppose it all comes down to the legal descriptions of "fair use". Though, I've come across some nasty bog holes on gravel roads before that had me sinking into sludge. I was on road, I came across some mud. Toyota won't warrant my vehicle after driving it along a proper road? Then what good are their vehicles?

I suppose Toyota thinks that if there's mud in the Clutch Assembly then you must have been doing something with the vehicle you shouldn't be. If that's the case then they should stop calling Prado's 4WD's right now, as clearly it's false advertising.

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: Clutch failure

So basically Toyota have admitted that you cannot use manual Prado's in mud. If it was ok to use manual Prado's in mud they would have honored the warranty. I'd like to know under exactly what grounds Toyota have dishonored the warranty for this because unless they've specified what types of use void the warranty, they should cover faults in the vehicle build. "Mud in the clutch assembly" is not a good enough excuse. They need to tell you why "mud in the clutch assembly" voids the warranty. If mud shouldn't be in there then that's Toyota's problem, not the customers. I suppose it all comes down to the legal descriptions of "fair use". Though, I've come across some nasty bog holes on gravel roads before that had me sinking into sludge. I was on road, I came across some mud. Toyota won't warrant my vehicle after driving it along a proper road? Then what good are their vehicles?

I suppose Toyota thinks that if there's mud in the Clutch Assembly then you must have been doing something with the vehicle you shouldn't be. If that's the case then they should stop calling Prado's 4WD's right now, as clearly it's false advertising.

Its not just prados that this effects, it effects most 4wds unless someone has a 100% sealed bellhousing and the only ones that I'm aware of are automatics - previous owner has did this to my patrol at some stage and the clutch was buggered. I honestly don't think Toyota need to say a whole heap in terms of warranty, there was mud in the bellhousing. Jacto even admitted to changing gears through the mud. A simple resolution is don't change gears in water crossings or deep mud as you run the risk of mud and water getting between your pressure plate and clutch plate and/or flywheel and you don't need a large amount either, just enough for the plates to become slippery and slip and glaze the surface of the plates. The factory clutch plates are shit too and you will wear them out quick smart if u ride the clutch or clutch coast etc, get an after market one and problem solved.

[Jacto Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jacto]

Re: Clutch failure

What ? I am hearing this correctly ?

"Don't change gears in the mud" :?: :?: Christ, I drive in deep mud and shit all day long at work in my land cruiser and my clutch works fine...

Toyota need to man up and sort their shit out and honor Jacto's friggin warranty... Bloody hell,, don't change gears in the mud :!: :!: :!:

Yeah well it ain't over till the fat lady sings :shock:

This new clutch has now slipped on two occasions in 1000km and it hasn't been off bitumen yet, so Toyota are going to hear about it very soon. As far as changing gears in mud, the ONLY gear change was made when the vehicle was stationary and from forward to reverse to try and get out, which it did. Anyway in 35 years of four wheel driving, I have been in a lot of difficult boggy situations and this is the first time I have every looked like doing a clutch in and the mud being blamed for it.
Iron Paww, you have hit it on the head, Toyota are admitting that their vehicles are not suitable for being in 4WD in mud :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[Golly Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Golly]

Re: Clutch failure

Toyota are admitting that their vehicles are not suitable for being in 4WD in mud :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

I think this is isolated Jacto hopefully , the 75 series utes we have here, try actually finding the gearbox underneath hahaha, 7.5kms of decline and on days its slipperier than catshit on a lanonium floor. They have to chip away the mud to work on the buggas if needed hahahaha.. Hope Toyota do step up, like Matt said, mining utes see some extreme conditions and I know here from a supply side of things, clutches are not an common issue out the door. Hope they help you out Jacto and the Prado is a one off, and its not a terminal thing like the rattle for some models.