RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

John,

I too run two separate Aux. charging regimes.

1: Ranox (option 1) which is set for a max outputof 22A to match the battery.
2: Inverter & 30amp battery charger.

I too have noticed that the Ranox some times have trouble determining when the battery is running, especially so if both chagers are at capacity. I plan to change the Ranox to Option 0 but just haven't got around to it yet. I am currently using a 100A solid state relay to switch the feed to the inverter and will probably use the same on the Ranox.
These relays are available from Jaycar: CAT. NO. SY4086

Leachy

[Grey Nomad Member Find all posts View Profile Close Grey Nomad]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi Guys

Thanks for your responses. Firstly, when I said that I would change from Mode 1 to Mode 2, I obviously meant changing from Mode 1 to Mode 0 :?
I have two independant feeds of (from memory) 16mm cable so I don't believe that there is an issue there.
Yes, Alan, it has done this to me without the caravan load but just once or twice in months.
I note that Leachy has also had a similar problem.
Thank you Alan (RanOx) for your offer of help but, as this issue is not readily reproducible, I feel that I will go down the quick and easy route and run both RanOx in Mode 0 via a 100 Amp relay.
I feel that the Prado D4D charging system is the culprit here and running both RanOx via an ignition controlled relay will prove exactly where the problem lies.
I will keep you all posted once I have had time to prove the system one way or the other.

Cheers - John

[4xx4 Driver Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4xx4 Driver]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi Grey Nomad,

I am the Frank that Alan R spoke of in his post. I don't know if that is good or bad, but my system works a treat, so if you'll bear another long post I'll describe it.

I have a 105 amp-hour sealed flooded wet cell dual purpose deep cycle/crank battery as an auxiliary under the bonnet. My Kimberley Karavan has a 315 amp-hour AGM battery bank. I have a RanOx under the passenger seat to look after the Prado's aux battery, and another in the KK to look after the KK battery bank.

The Prado's RanOx is set to 15 amps to match that battery's charging requirements. The KK's RanOx is set to its maximum of 25 amps as those AGMs will take all they can get.

I use a Redarc isolator and a load switching relay under the bonnet of the Prado. When the engine is off, the two RanOxen are off and the car fridge and auxiliary power outlets are supplied from the Prado's aux battery. When the engine is running and the crank battery voltage has come up, the Redarc cuts in. This makes the load switching relay switch the car fridge and the auxiliary power outlets to run off the crank battery/alternator instead of the second battery. At the same time the RanOxen are switched on and are also powered from the crank battery/alternator. This arrangement means that when the engine is running the aux battery in the Prado has no load on it, so the Prado's RanOx can readily recharge the second battery at its preferred modest rate.

The Karavan battery has to support a compressor fridge which is always switched on and draws 5 amps when it cycles on. With a 315 amp-hour battery pack this causes minimal battery voltage drop, so the Karavan RanOx does not get overly confused as it charges while the fridge is running. (It would be a different story if the fridge was an absorption fridge drawing a typical 15 amps. That is one reason why Kimberley chose a compressor fridge.)

Both RanOxen are set to Option 0 because they don't have to sense the alternator coming on line - the Redarc does that.

Something I don't see mentioned very often but needs to be considered is alternator load analysis.
The D4D Prado alternator capacity is 80 amp. I've had my electrical system checked - just to run the engine takes 13 amps. Let's look at some electrical loads that we 4WD tourists might encounter on a wet night:
- Engine 13 amps
- Partially depleted Prado aux battery calls for 15 amps from its RanOx. That RanOx will pull 16 to 17 amps to deliver 15.
- Partially depleted KK battery banks calls for 25 amps from its RanOx. That RanOx will pull 30 amps to deliver 25.
- It's night. Hi beams are on. 2 x 55watt = 110 watt, = 9.1 amp.
- Karavan and car running lights, 5 amp?
- It's warm and wet. Aircon is running for demisting/comfort. 10 amps?
- It's wet, as above. Wipers are on. 5 amps?
- Car fridge running - mine is a cheap Chinese one, draws 5 amps
- ANy other auxiliary power drains? Spotties, another 150 watt, = 12.5 amp (just guessing)

So the total load on the alternator under these circumstances would be about 105 amps. It can only deliver 80 amps so that extra 25 is coming from the crank battery, which will slowly discharge as you're driving unless you reduce the load to below 80 amps.

For that reason I have wired in a load kill switch. If I have to activate it, all the extra loads that I have created (RanOxen, fridges, auxiliaries, etc) are switched off the crank battery and the Prado's electrical load is as it would have been out of the showroom. (If I had spotties, they would be an exception and stay on.) The car fridge then runs off the aux battery, as if the engine were not running and the Karavan fridge runs off the Karavan battery as it always does, so the beer stays cold and the day's catch stays fresh.

It sounds complicated but it's dead simple - all you do is switch the earth wire from the Redarc.

Cheers

[Grey Nomad Member Find all posts View Profile Close Grey Nomad]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi Frank

Thanks for that alternator drain information. We can always guess but an actual measurement is much better. As I never tow at night, I will be spared charging the caravan battery whilst lights are on. However, as the RanOxen are so easy to adjust, I may fiddle maximum charging rates to suit my conditions from time to time.
In my last post, I mentioned that I was going to use an ignition controlled relay but Alan from RanOx insisted on providing me with excellent backup and support so this is on hold. I was going to be performing RanOxen charging tests on Tuesday with a run to Glen Innes but the rain put paid to that so I will have to wait until next Monday when I am doing another run up to the Sunshine Coast.
I will keep you all posted as events unfold.

Cheers - John

[Sprocket Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sprocket]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi
For some reason I had the fuse holder melt on the input voltage wire, it didn't blow the fuse completely and the Ranox was reading 8 volts car supply? anyway started to troubleshoot and the melted fuse was the obvious problem, don't know why it didn't completely blow no obvious reason I could see. In the process of removing to repair I dropped the unit on the driveway and damaged the screen and the backlight didn't work anymore. So I called Alan from Ranox he now has his mobile on his new site and explained my problems.
Well Alan was great I was happy to pay for a new display even though he offered to try and fix the old one and he swapped the fuse holders and updated the firmware and express posted back all for $90 and done within the week.
The unit works better than ever and the firmware update has addressed some of my overheating issues. It will now throttle back the charge voltage if it senses the unit is getting to hot rather than just stopping and saying overheat. It will also tell you if it has overheated and cooled down to resume charging.
A smart little unit that's now smarter.
Alan is also working on a remote display option for those of use who like to look at what's going on from the drivers seat.
Cheers
Rick

[Grey Nomad Member Find all posts View Profile Close Grey Nomad]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi all

I last said that I would let you know how my two RanOxen units went after my apparent D4D sensing "issue".
After successful communication with RanOx, both of my RanOxen are now performing faultlessly. Many thanks to Alan - RanOx are a very helpful company when it comes to support.
I see that Rick (above) also concurs.

Cheers - John

[Bankrupt Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bankrupt]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Well gents the level of info above is overwhelming...to me anyway. Not sure that volts/amps/etc are really my thing just yet.

Anyway I have the following problem and I'm hoping that now that a few people have played with different set-ups someone may be able to give me some more specific advice...hopefully in lay mans terms (if even possible)

The scenario is as follows:
1. I have a 09 D4D and will be taking it into the Pilbara and Kimberly for 6-8weeks at the beginning of August;
2. The missus is a pain in the ass when it comes to things not working and if we run out of power life will be hell;
3. I have a Waeco CF80 Combo fridge freezer that has a hunger = Av. Power Consumption: 2.9 amps/hr (@ 12V, 5°C fridge, -15°C (approx.) freezer, 32°C ambient temperature) but have read this is more likely to be 5Ah average;
4. The car will have air-con, cb, and two Lightforce 240 Blitz spotties running apart from whatever the engine etc uses;
5. It is unlikely we will be travelling much at night;
6. The car has the std battery in it at the moment and I also have a Optima Yellow Top D34/78 left over from a race car that I was considering using but now may just take as a back-up (Its specs = CA 870, CCA 750, AH 55, RC 120);
7. I have ordered a twin battery set-up from the 4wd shop and they recommended using two calcium hybrid 110Ah batteries and a Redarc system, with the battery fitted in the front driver's side of the engine bay.
8. We will be isolated from mains power for up to 5 days at a time, in 30-35deg weather;
9. Cost is a consideration but less so than the contemplation of life in prison; and
10. I hate warm beer.

After reading this thread I'm now very concerned that what I have on order may well end in tears and that I would be better to scrap that order and pursue one of these units with some batteries that others here are having success with.

I'm aware that this system is unlikley to be all that is required so I'm also looking into a solar panel system that will also need to be able to tie into whatever system gets installed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm very competent mechanically but electrical stuff really has my measure.

Cheers

Jase

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi Jase,

Do not go with the calcium batteries, the D4D charging circuit will not charge them and the auto elect should know that!

There has been a lot of talk about using buck boosters to charge the aux batteries and granted they may be the most elegant
solution to overcome the Prado charging problems and different battery types but other ways are also possible.

I use a rotronics isolated charge system myself as I believe it is the quickest way to charge the aux batteries. I should point out though that
I have modified my alternator to maintain a 14.5V float voltage to ensure the aux battery is fully charged.

If you don't mod the alternator or use a buck boost setup then you will need to use solar panels to ensure the aux gets fully charged.
Note Calcium batteries need at least 14.6V to charge properly.

I have a friend who's presently doing the simpson, he is using a piranha setup has not moded the alternator. He has found the aux will not fully charge
(Century marine type battery) and has been using a 80W solar setup to maintain then battery. This is just meeting his needs with sunny days and 8HR
of sun light. He says he need to look at another set up when he gets back.

Summing up:
Mod your alternator and use similar type batteries for main and aux or use a buck boost setup to ensure charge voltage suits the battery type being used.
The bigger the aux the better but consider the weight factor, and cracking of the mud guards when locating the battery (covered in other posts) mind you no
good putting in a 110A battery if your not going to be running the car long enough to charge it!
Note Your 110A battery will last for a couple of days at 2.9A average draw.

When camping you will either have to run the car to charge the battery or use solar. If using a solar panel I would suggest you go for at least a 120W unit, this
should give you enough output to run a typical fridge and some lighting. Solar panel ratings are the theoretical laboratory maximum output not what you will get
in actual use, you should de-rate by at least 20%. Also solar panel are from memory general rated at around 22C in temperatures in excess of this the panel
produce less output, they don't like hot weather!

If using an inverter check the stand by current draw as some use quite a bit even with no appliance connected to them.

Cheers

LeighW

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

I should point out though that I have modified my alternator to maintain a 14.5V float voltage to ensure the aux battery is fully charged.

Do tell this mod...

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Jase,

The advise the auto sparky has given is rubbish. As LeighW has already pointed out Calcium batteries and a Redarc is only going to lead to disappointment. It will only cost a couple of hundred dollars more to install a sound dual battery setup and it will same you money and frunstration in the long run.

Leachy

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi D4D,

As you would be aware the D4D has a temperature compensated output, this has been done to allow Toyota to meet the reduced
emission requirements in the near future.

Generally the alternator output will start charging at around 14.5V but after a few minutes will drop to around 13.5-13.8 volts.
Toyota assume that the few minutes is enough to restore a "fully charged battery" to the fully charged condition after a typical
start.

If you refer to the charging circuit for the D4D you will notice a "S" lead runs from the alternator to the positive lead of the battery.
This is the sense lead for the alternator regulator and gives the regulator feedback as to actual voltage being applied directly to
the battery. I haven't actually looked but I think it is actual connected to the bus bar of the main fuse box beside the battery.

To change the output voltage of the alternator you need to trick the regulator in to thinking the battery voltage is less than it
actually is. To do this you need to place a diode in series with the sense lead. There is a fuse in series with this lead and I found
the easiest way was to mod the fuse and fit a surface mount diode into the fuse body itself. I have read an article from another
who has put two diodes in series with the sense lead and switch setup to bridge one or both out as required so that he can change
the alternator output as desired.

He leaves both diodes in circuit to give the aux a quick boost. One diode in for bulk charge and when running around
at home switches both out to prevent overcharging.

I just have one diode as at home the car usually does short trips and using the rotronics unit I can select charge main only
and therfore over charging of the aux when not being used is not an issue for me.

The diode to use is a try and see as each alternator and diode is slightly different, a good starting point is types:

One P600G or Two IN5395 diodes (In parallel) type suggestion curtousy of Rotronics PtyLtd

These should result in an intial charge voltage of around 14.6 volts and a charge voltage of around 14.1V after a few minutes, this
is within the output voltage specs of Toyota and should therefore not affect the warranty etc.

In my case being from the electronics field and having many different type of diodes avaliable I tuned mine to around the 14.5V mark as
I wanted to charge the aux as quick as possible and a slightly shorten battery life was not a issue to me.

I have deliberatley not provided a detailed description of what needs to be done as those of you with the technical ability to do the mod
will be able to work it out from what I have written. If you can't then I should add if you don't know what your doing then don't do it!
Find yourself a good auto elect and get him to sort it out for you else you could do quite a bit of damage!

Cheers

LeighW

[pico Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close pico]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Hi Guys,
I am looking at setting up dual battery system under the bonnet on a V6 Grande 2005 Prado. Need to run Anderson Plug, Teconsha P3 Brake Control for Jayco Camper Trailer with Batteries x 2 and was wondering the best way to do this? Initially I was going to add the Aux batt with redarc and run the Anderson and Brake controller off that. This would charger the camper battery when driving, camper would charge from 240V when stopped most times.
However it seems this Ranox system may have put a spanner in the works !! Need to look at the best system or solution possible along with cost. Can I have your opinions please guys - it would be appreciated.
Pico.

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

I'd be very wary of mucking around with electrical/charging system in your Prado if you want to keep your warranty. Whether or not the output voltage is within spec is beside the point. You're deliberatley altering the design and operation of the charging system and Toyota wouldn't hesitate to dishonour an electrical warranty claim if this were found to be the case. Considering the multitude of electronics in the car and specifically the ecu and airbag system, it's a bit of a gamble on a new car. I'm not saying it will affect any of these items, but if they do fail, and they see/find the mod, you're a good chance of kissing your hard earned good bye.

Even if you do alter the output of the alternator, the RanOx will still charge your batteries faster than what your alternator will... And to a higher state of charge. (As per graphs on prevous pages). Also by using the Ranox you'll ensure the best life out of your battery by suiting the charging regime perfectly to your battery with no hassles worrying about overcharging either batteries.

There's no limit to how you can setup your RanOx with your 4x4 or campers/caravans so don't be frightened of using it... It's the best thing I've installed into my Prado and considering the cost of some of the DB systems out there, is probably the best bang for your buck but probably the most complicated to setup for a novice.

Pico,

Run your brakes off the main battery for reliability and safety.

You could always use the redarc to charge your aux battery in the car and the RanOx to charge the batteries in the camper... Or buy 2 RanOx and never have any battery issues!

As always, it all comes down to how much you want to spend and what you need from your batteries.

Crammy

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Crammy,

The alternator mod will not affect and suplimentary electronic systems, in fact if you look the output of the Ranox
unit it also reaches about 14.5V, granted it's not running the cars electric but it is running all those nominal 12V
accessories you have installed. Your correct Toyota may not like it but it is easly removed and I'm sure they wouldn't
be happy about a lot of other things we have done including installing dual batteries and a RANOX system as these will
also place additional loads on the charge system, not to mention possible interference to the onboard electronics caused by
add on microprocessor control equipment. If you have installed a transceiver then they have probably already wiped you off!

As regards charge rates, I would like to differ with your statement the ranox will charge faster, without the ranox
in circuit the battery charge rate is only limited by the float voltage and the available excess output of the alternator.
With the ranox in circuit then your limited to a maxium of 25 amps as shown on the graphs. Aside form that
the charge rate of any battery is limited by the surface charge of the battery and it's internal resistance, ie the battery
will charge at the rate which it is happy to accept. You can try and force it by upping the charge voltage but it will counter by
increasing its surface charge, charge voltage should be as per manufactures recommendation as excessive charge voltage
can lead to excessive gassing. Modern batteries are usaully sealed, excessive gassing will lead to venting and loss of electrolyt
and premature failure. Different batteries accept different charge rates ie Optima's will charge very quickly whilst others
ie gel type deep cycle batteries if fully discharged like an initial small charge which can then be ramped up
as the battery accepts charge.

In other words different battery technologies require very specific charging methods, this does not mean the charge voltage rather
the charging current.

I therefore imagine that the Ranox unit allows you to select the type of battery to be charged, ie Calcium, Gel, AGM, lead acid.
I ask this as looking at the charge graph it appears the Ranox unit dectects the "knee" point to determine when battery is fully charged.
As each type of battery has different knee characteristics then you should be able to select am appropriate charge program.

Lastly coming from a service industry back ground, one of the first things to fail in electornic equipment is switched mod power supplies. Most manufactures make
them as small as possible.This does not go well in the cooling department and they usually end up failing down the track due to the electrolytic capacitors drying out
caused by heat from over stressed components, or fan failure due to cheap 12V units being empoyed. Hopefully RANOX has made there unit bullet proof in this regard by.

Cheers

LeighW

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: RanOx DC-DC(non 240v) 3 stg charger: **Install pics added**

Had another thought,

Has anyone installed a Ranox unit in a vechile with a HF rig?

Would be interested to know if you have if you get any interference for the RANOX unit?

Cheers

LeighW