Stats on injector problems with the 1KD-FTV.

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Landuser,

Thanks for your excellent contributions to the forum. Re the injector seals, I do not agree though that it is relatively inexpensive to replace them. Someone has said that it costs about $900 - $1000. I have printed out the relevant part of the Workshop Manual and there are 5 pages of diagrams, 14 pages detailing how to remove the injectors and 20 pages of instructions on how to put it all back! It is not a simple procedure and there is scope for significant errors to be made and these could result in high pressure fuel leaks and possibly a fire, air leaks and coolant leaks, etc.

The fuel needs to be drained - surely not both fuel tanks but there is no explanation on what is meant and how the fuel is to be drained. What is required?

In petrol engines, there is usually a procedure to de-pressure the high pressure injector fuel rail before working on it. There is no mention of this. Is this because the diesel engine automatically de-pressurises at shut down? If not, what is the correct procedure?

The coolant needs to be replaced as does the oil filter and quite a few gaskets. Ideally the injector pipes should be replaced. So all up there will a significant cost for parts.

For some unknown reason, the manual describes the injector seals as "nozzle sheets". What do you do if you undertake the arduous process of finally getting to the injectors and the injectors are totally bonded to the housing with carbon build-up? Do you use something like carburettor cleaner/solvent?

Re-installation instruction 2.v has a Hint - "Never reinstall the union bolt on the engine." This seems very strange as 1.m has the instruction - "Tighten the union bolt." The union bolt is not marked as a non-reusable part on the diagram. Any thoughts?

For peace of mind I would like to replace the injector seals but feel the procedure is too complex and it may not be flawless. To me, it is a perfect case of letting sleeping dogs lie unless of course it is definitely known that the the seals are leaking. Then it is of paramount importance that they be replaced without delay. Therefore I would like to have the procedure clearly defined in case I need to implement it at short notice.

So I would appreciate any help possible with refining the procedure. If anyone is doing a replacement in Brisbane, could I come and help you?

Thanks
Glenn

A lot of what you state is just not correct.

[frederick Member Find all posts View Profile Close frederick]

Gidday the Roo, my car started marble----less this morning and we arrived back in Boondall around 7pm, and yes my first job is to book car in for reflash etc.

cheers

Wazza (frederick)

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Landuser,

Thanks for your excellent contributions to the forum. Re the injector seals, I do not agree though that it is relatively inexpensive to replace them. Someone has said that it costs about $900 - $1000. I have printed out the relevant part of the Workshop Manual and there are 5 pages of diagrams, 14 pages detailing how to remove the injectors and 20 pages of instructions on how to put it all back! It is not a simple procedure and there is scope for significant errors to be made and these could result in high pressure fuel leaks and possibly a fire, air leaks and coolant leaks, etc.

The fuel needs to be drained - surely not both fuel tanks but there is no explanation on what is meant and how the fuel is to be drained. What is required?

In petrol engines, there is usually a procedure to de-pressure the high pressure injector fuel rail before working on it. There is no mention of this. Is this because the diesel engine automatically de-pressurises at shut down? If not, what is the correct procedure?

The coolant needs to be replaced as does the oil filter and quite a few gaskets. Ideally the injector pipes should be replaced. So all up there will a significant cost for parts.

For some unknown reason, the manual describes the injector seals as "nozzle sheets". What do you do if you undertake the arduous process of finally getting to the injectors and the injectors are totally bonded to the housing with carbon build-up? Do you use something like carburettor cleaner/solvent?

Re-installation instruction 2.v has a Hint - "Never reinstall the union bolt on the engine." This seems very strange as 1.m has the instruction - "Tighten the union bolt." The union bolt is not marked as a non-reusable part on the diagram. Any thoughts?

For peace of mind I would like to replace the injector seals but feel the procedure is too complex and it may not be flawless. To me, it is a perfect case of letting sleeping dogs lie unless of course it is definitely known that the the seals are leaking. Then it is of paramount importance that they be replaced without delay. Therefore I would like to have the procedure clearly defined in case I need to implement it at short notice.

So I would appreciate any help possible with refining the procedure. If anyone is doing a replacement in Brisbane, could I come and help you?

Thanks
Glenn

Hi Glenn,

Can I suggest you obtain a quote from a Toyota dealer first, specifiying that you have been advised that the Injector seal change is part of the Tappet clearance check provided for in the 40,000 interval services. Perhaps you could have it incorporated in one of these services. I will caution you however that you specifically request feedback on evidence of Injector leaks, and if evident on Injector removal, ask for a sump screen Inspection.

Glenn, how many KLM has your Vehicle done?

[sacred cow Member Find all posts View Profile Close sacred cow]

A lot of what you state is just not correct.

Could you kindly advise me of my errors?

Glenn

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Could you kindly advise me of my errors?

Glenn

OK, maybe I was a bit abrupt.

"It is not a simple procedure and there is scope for significant errors to be made and these could result in high pressure fuel leaks and possibly a fire, air leaks and coolant leaks, etc."

That is correct.

"The fuel needs to be drained - surely not both fuel tanks but there is no explanation on what is meant and how the fuel is to be drained.

That is not correct.

"In petrol engines, there is usually a procedure to de-pressure the high pressure injector fuel rail before working on it. There is no mention of this. Is this because the diesel engine automatically de-pressurises at shut down? If not, what is the correct procedure?"

Place a rag around an injector on the common rail side, and undo the union nut at the injector. Simple.

"The coolant needs to be replaced as does the oil filter and quite a few gaskets. Ideally the injector pipes should be replaced."

Replace coolant?? No.

Oil filter?? Why?

Injector pipes don't need replacing if the mechanic is careful an meticulous in his work.

""Never reinstall the union bolt on the engine." This seems very strange as 1.m has the instruction - "Tighten the union bolt." The union bolt is not marked as a non-reusable part on the diagram. Any thoughts?"

There is no issue with re-using the union bolt on the return side.

"For peace of mind I would like to replace the injector seals but feel the procedure is too complex and it may not be flawless. To me, it is a perfect case of letting sleeping dogs lie unless of course it is definitely known that the the seals are leaking. Then it is of paramount importance that they be replaced without delay. Therefore I would like to have the procedure clearly defined in case I need to implement it at short notice."

Get your mechanic to inspect the oil pickup screen when servicing the vehicle. It only takes a couple of minutes, and crud build-up on the screen can be a good diagnostic for injector seal failure.

I would advise you to get a good mechanic to do the work. I had previously mentioned that I believe it not to be a difficult job, but I was not properly acknowledging that we all have varying skills competencies and access to appropriate equipment.
You are correct in saying that the job is fraught with dangers for the non experienced.
So.... Get a decent mechanic to do the work if required.

[frederick Member Find all posts View Profile Close frederick]

Hi all, as promised I dropped the oil this morning and poked the Aldi camera over the drain hole to reveal a shiny clean oil pick up screen so popped the bung back in a refilled with fresh oil. I have some pictures of the screen and will try and post later otherwise u can email to someone more up to posting pictures on pp for them to host.
Car is booked in on next Monday for reflash etc. an interesting conversation with brendale Toyota regarding my booking for reflash etc as he stated car should not be driven until reflash is done as they have one prado now that has to be tow trucked in as will not run apparently due to cheap aftermarket injectors.
I never mentioned that I have driven 2600 ks since injector replacement last thursday and half of those ks were towing a trailer.
Wazza

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Hi all, as promised I dropped the oil this morning and poked the Aldi camera over the drain hole to reveal a shiny clean oil pick up screen so popped the bung back in a refilled with fresh oil. I have some pictures of the screen and will try and post later otherwise u can email to someone more up to posting pictures on pp for them to host.
Car is booked in on next Monday for reflash etc. an interesting conversation with brendale Toyota regarding my booking for reflash etc as he stated car should not be driven until reflash is done as they have one prado now that has to be tow trucked in as will not run apparently due to cheap aftermarket injectors.
I never mentioned that I have driven 2600 ks since injector replacement last thursday and half of those ks were towing a trailer.
Wazza

Hi Fredrick (wazza), mate this is good news and a great piece of mind. It's proof that not all leaks if caught quickly enough via sensible inspection schedules can be allowed to progress to major screen build up, It can also indicate that not every vehicle is going to leak, but now we know they can, we should be checking for it. Sadly though, a great number are leaking and are either going terminal or have already gone terminal. So we gotta keep looking for this, TMC should be advocating it.

SO FAR I AM SEEING 50% CLOGGED ON INSPECTION, 75% ON WAY TO CLOGGING, 25% CLEAR

So glad your in my 25% clear! Now you have done this check I hope it is all plain sailing for ya mate...Happy 4wdrivin'

Landuser

[sacred cow Member Find all posts View Profile Close sacred cow]

Just make sure you have the latest version of the software in your ECM which you will have to go to Toyota Service for that.
This repair is not for the inexperienced and if you don't change the gaskets, get the torques right, etc, etc... you may end up with diesel fuel leaking into your engine oil which is a very bad thing. It could end up your worse nightmare and is nothing like changing out the old style injector diesels. As I have said, you need to be anal doing this job.
Glenn, just PM me if you want to do the job yourself.
The Roo.

The Roo,

Thanks. I may further down the track take you up with your kind offer. Re getting the latest ECM software, I am very averse to giving Toyota any more of my hard-earned money given their pathetic customer service. So I would want a very good reason for paying for ECM firmware upgrades. What do the upgrades fix up?

Glenn

[sacred cow Member Find all posts View Profile Close sacred cow]

OK, maybe I was a bit abrupt.



That is correct.



That is not correct.



Place a rag around an injector on the common rail side, and undo the union nut at the injector. Simple.



Replace coolant?? No.

Oil filter?? Why?

Injector pipes don't need replacing if the mechanic is careful an meticulous in his work.



There is no issue with re-using the union bolt on the return side.



Get your mechanic to inspect the oil pickup screen when servicing the vehicle. It only takes a couple of minutes, and crud build-up on the screen can be a good diagnostic for injector seal failure.

I would advise you to get a good mechanic to do the work. I had previously mentioned that I believe it not to be a difficult job, but I was not properly acknowledging that we all have varying skills competencies and access to appropriate equipment.
You are correct in saying that the job is fraught with dangers for the non experienced.
So.... Get a decent mechanic to do the work if required.

Davros,

Thanks. Please note that draining and replacing the coolant, draining the fuel and replacing the oil filter are straight out of Toyota's Workshop Manual.

Glenn

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Hey Roo,
Why would a reflash be required to enable entering the code?

I have done two 1KD's using the intellegent tester II. I don't think the ecu's had been reflashed on those vehicles.
When I tried to do mine it wasn't required, and I don't think my ecu has ever been reflashed. The reson I said "tried to do" is because the new Carman Scan tool I was using would not go past the letter O for some reson, and part of the injector code was the letter Q. Had to get someone else to do it with an ITII, which is why I ended up buying one myself.
I was told that the reflash commonly done by dealers is to compensate for the cold start rattle with modifyed fueling when cold. It doesn't work long term of course, but that was what they were trying to solve with the reflash.

The code is 32 characters long too, from memory.

[sacred cow Member Find all posts View Profile Close sacred cow]

On behalf of Wazza AKA Frederick I am posting a photo of his Prado's oil pump screen taken with a $99 Aldi camera. It demonstrates that the cheap Aldi camera does provide an acceptable image. It shows too that his oil pump screen is perfectly clean. Wazza used his iPhone to take a photo of the Aldi monitor so degradation of the image has occurred.

Glenn

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Oil Pickup Screen Inspection Prado Hilux D4D Clean or Clogged?

On behalf of Wazza AKA Frederick I am posting a photo of his Prado's oil pump screen taken with a $99 Aldi camera. It demonstrates that the cheap Aldi camera does provide an acceptable image. It shows too that his oil pump screen is perfectly clean. Wazza used his iPhone to take a photo of the Aldi monitor so degradation of the image has occurred.

Glenn

G'day Glen (sacred cow), That is a great pic Glen. Thats what we want to see. I wish all the screens looked that good, but it is good to see the problem is not evident of every engine!

At least you know you are totally OK and that this check can be done easily & cheaply. If dealers do the same at service time on all the D4D engines, then a lot of people are going to be saved some big headaches if they do see a dirty screen, and can act before blockage kills their D4D engine.

To ignore this issue can be a disaster, so the dealers need proper guidance from Toyota on that score.

Good on you for doing the check off your own bat and having full confidence in your D4D engine now.

You may have already mentioned it but what is your mileage & vehicle year?

Landuser

[frederick Member Find all posts View Profile Close frederick]

Greetings to all, just had the new injector codes entered and the ECU reflashed at Torque Toyota Brendale, job took all of 30 minutes and cost $130.00. Anyway they also picked up that the recall on the bull bar chassis mounts had not been completed so have booked that one for Next Monday. No difference in performance on the drive home but once i hook up the caravan i will soon know at least i have peace of mind now with new injectors and a clean sump screen i can enjoy my trip away.

Wazza (frederick)

[Whitey1 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey1]

Did an oil change yesterday on mine and had a look up the drain hole with just a torch. Found I could see the screen pretty well without a probe camera. Looked clean to me.
But I have the cold run rattle so I looks like its new injectors for me.
Hoping Toyota will come to the party for me but wont hold my breath. Taking it to Bridge Toyota in Darwin.
Dec 07 model
6 speed manual
105000 km

[frederick Member Find all posts View Profile Close frederick]

Update gents, have hooked up the caravan (2.3 tonne) and headed to Kingaroy for the night then onto dalby, roma, tennant creek then DARWIN Kakado and thereabouts over the next several months.
Since getting the injectors replaced have noticed a big improvement in towing capabilities as vehicle seems happy now chugging a long rather than struggling like before. Fuel usage seems less thus far but will report exact numbers once tank has been refilled and trip meter reset. No nasty marbles rattling around in the engine on the cold mornings now and car idles smoother. It cost just under $4k but money well spent.