White smoke. Please help

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

I just bought a used Prado GX 4 cylinders, manual transmission, standard not turbo. Diesel engine. This Prado was made in 2004 and has 149000 km run so far.

I have three issues that I need help with:

1. The engine makes noise whenever I try to speed up and keeps noisy till I return the clutch to neutral. The engine is strong and seem to have no problem and has never been opned or rebuilt

2. A heavy white smoke is produced from the engine. I opened the oil place in the engine and the same white smoke comes out. I changed oil (10000K), but it is still the same

Please advise if this to some extent is abnomal and what should I do to solve this problem.

3. What is the normal drive on the pavement. the clutch should be H4, H2 or L4. Please help

Please let me know if you have experienced similar symptoms and thank you so much for support.

Mike

[McBAIN Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close McBAIN]

did they make a diesel with no turbo? where are you located?

i'd be checking that out first as it may be your problem.

many current and ex diesel mechanics on here, no doubt you'll get plenty of accurate advice!

edit - quick google search came up with this, my mechanical knowledge is pretty much non existent though!

"White smoke and blue-white smoke share some of the same characteristics. White smoke is fuel not being burned. Extreme white smoke can be caused by the combustion chambers cooling down. One cause of this could be incorrect injection pump timing. Coolant getting into the combustion chamber can cause white smoke also. Possible causes are blown head gaskets, cracked heads cavitation, etc"

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

Dear McBain

Thank you so much for your answer. I am located in France. Yes this is a Diesel engine with no turbo. I will appreciate very much if somebody in this forum can help me with this.

I have another question: Is it normal to be be that much noisy on the road? the engine seems suffocated and cannot pull the maximum power.

Thanks

[McBAIN Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close McBAIN]

that in combination with the smoke..... i'd be taking it down to a mechanic pretty quick...

[MUMSRIG Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MUMSRIG]

Unfortuately it doesn't sound good. Can you describe the noise in more detail? Is it whilst the vehicle is under load i.e. driving along under throttle or when decelerating? Or is noisy at rest with clutch pushed in?

More info on when the noise occurs may help.

Mitch

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

Noisy engine

Dear Mumsrig:

It is very noisy when I am accelerating. Since the speed is manual, then i have to shift the clutch for example at 50km/hour to 4 so as to smoothen the noise. it is calm only when the clutch is neutral/at rest like in red lights for example.

Thanks for the response
Mike

[m999999 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close m999999]

Diesel exhaust smoke can vary in color and consistency but most can be classified into four categories according to the color of the smoke.


The first category is blue-white smoke:

Blue-white smoke may be noticed at engine start-up whether the engine is at normal operating temperature or not. Blue-white smoke can be observed at all ambient temperatures and should not last longer than a minute or two after the vehicle has been driven. Blue-white smoke can return when ambient temperature is below 10 degrees C (50 degrees F), and after the engine is warmed up due to extended idling. This is due to combustion chambers cooling own during periods of extended idling time. Heavy blue-white smoke may also occur if the engine is operated at full throttle with the transmission in neutral or park. If you see continuous Blue-white smoke while driving, then you probably have air being sucked into the fuel system.

The second category is white smoke:

White smoke and blue-white smoke share some of the same characteristics. White smoke is fuel not being burned. Extreme white smoke can be caused by the combustion chambers cooling down. One cause of this could be incorrect injection pump timing. Coolant getting into the combustion chamber can cause white smoke also. Possible causes are blown head gaskets, cracked heads cavitation, etc.

The third category is black smoke:

Black smoke is caused by an over rich mixture and normally occurs whenever the engine is working hard. Like going up a steep grade, being loaded heavy or during heavy acceleration. More black smoke can be observed when the vehicle is operated at higher altitudes because the air is thinner. A dirty air filter is also another cause of excessive black smoke. If black smoke is noticed while the engine is idling at low altitude or under normal driving conditions this condition should be diagnosed a.s.a.p. to prevent engine damage.

The fourth category is blue smoke:

Blue smoke is not normal and you do not want to be driving behind a truck that produces it. Blue smoke occurs when oil is entering the combustion chamber and is burning along with the fuel. Blue smoke usual indicates a condition which should be corrected a.s.a.p. Blue smoke also smells like oil burning. Possible causes include valve seals or cracked piston rings.


Hope this helps

cheers

M

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Well, I've had some experience with the oil getting past the rings and burning nicely in the combustion chamber. It certainly does make nice white clouds of smoke. I can't say that it ever appeared blue to me though. A rough noise coming from the engine, in my experience, only means trouble. Get to a Diesel mechanic ASAP if you've got some type of graunchy noise occurring, like a dry bearing type noise or something. Heavy white constant smoke is certainly not normal. Can you tell if the engine oil levels are going down???

Screeching noise??? could just be a loose drive belt.

Aircon on or off make a difference?

I've had near dead water pumps / coolant pumps make a strange plasticy thwacking noise which of course changes with engine revs. However this wasn't in a Prado.

Noise only happens when the vehicle moves???

What about rolling along but with gearbox in neutral?

Revving the engine at standstill / neutral makes the noise?

Only at speed or slowly as well?

Do you feel any vibrations associated with the noise?

If changing between gears at similar revs changes the noise then you could be looking at a gearbox problem. Rolling along at speed with gearbox in neutral / engine revving does not produce the noise then you can remove running gear and engine from the equation. *Although*, the engine being under load could also have something to do with it. Try to isolate what part of the vehicle is producing the noise.

My manual Prado does not have a H2 position as it is so called "constant 4WD" I have H HL N and LL. The H position is the normal bitumen driving position.

If you have the H2 and H4 options, meaning you've got at part time 4WD system then you should choose the H2 option for normal bitumen driving. You can cause damage in H4 on bitumen with part time systems.

Can you get part time 4WD setups in the Prado??????

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

Re: White smoke. Please help

I have three issues that I need help with:

1. The engine makes noise whenever I try to speed up and keeps noisy till I return the clutch to neutral. The engine is strong and seem to have no problem and has never been opned or rebuilt

2. A heavy white smoke is produced from the engine. I opened the oil place in the engine and the same white smoke comes out. I changed oil (10000K), but it is still the same


3. What is the normal drive on the pavement. the clutch should be H4, H2 or L4. Please help


Mike

Hi Mike. welcome to the forum. All the way from france.
My sister lives over there. near Lyon.
Anyway, Im not one of the online diesel mechanics Im afraid but do drive one. (turbo)

As for (#1) try a few things that IRON-PAWW said. try to isolate engine noise from gearbox noise. could possibly be clutch related also.

As for (#2) when you say "I opened the oil place in the engine and the same white smoke comes out" . that makes me cringe a bit.
thats either rings, valve stem seals or cracks in pistons or head. get that looked at by your local diesel mechanic (i dont know if compression testing can be preformed on a diesel-- I guess it can-- but that will tell).

As for (#3). we have in australia H HL N and LL on the little stick. you say you have H4, H2 or L4.
Ours stand for
"H"= High (gearing) (centre diff is a Torsen which is kind of like a limited slip differential) for on road use.
"HL"= High Lock. it locks the centre diff when off road or not a high traction road, like ice/snow mud etc. If the vehicle is driven for a long period of time on high traction surfaces damage can occur in the gear train. Tyres can turn at different speeds by cornering etc and can put enormous loads on gears and shafts.
"N" is Neutral. nothing happens here. its just a space between the High gearing and the Low gearing.
"LL" is Low (gearing) Lock. The centre diff is still locked but the gearing has been hugely reduced to make slow manuovers with your foot of the clutch possible.

So saying all that,
yours must have
"H4" High (gearing) 4WD. same as our HL. Only used in slippery surface type work, ice/ snow/ mud.
"H2" High 2wd.. You must not have a Torsen type centre diff but an open centre diff. This would be the gear you need for highway use.
"L4" Low (gearing) 4wd. same as our LL. for slow speed clutch out work like up or down steep rocky hills.

Wow I think thats about it.
espérez qu'il tout établit bien pour vous.. jeff dans un prado blanc.

I hope that makes sense Mike, its from babel fish translator

Jeff.

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

Thank you Jeff!

Dear Jeff

Thank you so much for your well detailed advice and for taking time to respond. I feel I am in family here in this forum.

I have just finished fixing the engine. There were some cracks in the pistons, and I have fixed that though it has cost me a lot of money. I feel that I was cheated by the seller and this deal is a nightmare.

Now, I have no more oil waste/spills or any kind of while or black smoke. The only thing that is bothering me is the speed which is comparatively to my old Mercedes 250, model 1987 very low. My Prado seems suffocated when I speed up. for example at 40 km/hr I have to change the manual clutch to 4 speed, at 80 km/hr I have to change it to 5 speed. However, the noice is lessened a little bit, but still the noise is there. It is very anoying either in the city or on the highway. Do you think this is a problem of the clutch? or should be something else.
For the translation in french it is close. That is pretty! for lyon, it is a nice place, a little bit far from where I live.

Have a nice day! and take care!

Mike

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

Dear IRON-PAWW

Dear IRON-PAWW

Sorry for not replying sooner. I was out of town. The vehicle does not produce any noise when it is in neutral. A/C on or off does not really produce a difference in noise. I have checked the T-belt and the problem is still there either before or after fixing the new belt. Yes this happens only when the Prado moves. When the gearbox is neutral or at a stop lights, the vehicle does not produce any noise, it is like the engine is turned off. Once I move noise happens. The engine makes noise inside and outside town both at slow and fast speeds. No vibrations are associated with the noise. For example, when the car is moving at 40 or 45 km/hr, I have to change the gearbox to 4 speed manual and so on. at 80 km/hr i have to go 5 th speed. but the noise is always there. it is not a cracking noise, but is like the engine does not pull power to its fullest. it looks to me like a big truck engine and this is the funny part of the situation, I got to add volume to my cassete player in order to reduce the echo of the engine.!! lol

What do you think now? where should I go? what should I inspect? what type of mechanic should I be looking for? will be there any damage to the engine if I continue driving this way? or should I stop driving it and get quickly in touch with a specialised mechanic?

The car is not under warranty any more, and it is costly to fix it over here. How much does it cost to fix a gearbox if that is the problem?

thank you and I hope to hear from you soon

Mike

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Giftsmas,

Hey no problems mate. I'm glad you got the smoke issue sorted. I'm guessing you've had an engine rebuild, just going by your description of "cracked pistons". I'm very sure that would have cost you a lot to fix, even on a non turbo diesel engine.

Considering what you've reported, it sounds like you've been given a very bad deal. You've done an engine rebuild (I'm assuming) and you've still got problems. If I were you I'd consider your next move very carefully, because it really sounds like you could again be up for some serious money. I wouldn't expect a diesel engine with 149,000 km on it to be in such bad shape as yours was. This leads me to think it might have been badly treated during it's life. That leads me to question the condition of the rest of the vehicle, particularly with the continuing noise you report.

If the noise you've got only happens when you move then you're looking at either the gearbox or drivetrain (driveshaft, diff, universals, etc). Needing to change into 4th gear at 45km/h points to something very wierd going on and I'd be thinking clutch / gearbox problems as a start. Other PradoPoint members might be able to comment better on this.

Can you tell us what your engine revs are at each gear change??

At this point It might be best to take the Prado to a reputable mechanic and at least get them to quote you on a fix for your problems. It sounds like there are still issues there that need looking at. If the cost is going to be huge then you might be better off cutting your losses and selling it as is. On the other hand, you've already spent money on the engine. So perhaps, with a gearbox rebuild (if needed) you might end up with a decent vehicle in the end. At least that way, you will know that you've got a good engine and gearbox. Although in Australia, I've found that 2nd hand dealerships always view rebuilds badly, no matter who they've been done by. It doesn't seem to matter that you've basically got a new engine......

Have it looked at and get a quote. That's what I'd do. And throttle the guy you bought it off..... at least you might feel better...... 8)

[giftsmas Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close giftsmas]

Prado engine noise

Thanks again my friend for your help. I am not really into the mechanical terminology especially in English. Could you ecplain to me something?
what do you mean by 'engine revs'?

I was asked by the mechanic who did the rebuilt engine not to speed up to 120 km/hour. However, I wanted to find out if speeding to 100 km/hr is at least possible and may reduce the noise of the engine and it did. the noise was still present but much lower. It was at 4th gear. any more comments on this situation?

Tell me something: is it possible that the 4wd gearbox may be stuck/fixed at H4 drive though it looks like it is pointed to H2 drive? is it possible that 4wd (H4) may slow the car and produce that much noise on pavements/paved roads?

On Monday, I will consult with Toyota company on this to have any clearer feedback.

thanks again.
Mike

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

I think getting it looked at by Toyota is probably the best thing for you to do. At least you can get a clear idea of what else may be wrong with the vehicle, and how much it might cost to fix.

I was interested in what you said about the engine feeling underpowered. Mind you, 4 cylinder non-turbo diesels don't have much power in any case. I drove a 4 cylinder diesel Hilux (no turbo) for years. On a good day I might just get 110km/h if the wind was right...

EDIT: In Australia we cannot buy diesel Prado's without a turbo. Certainly all 2004 diesel models here had turbo engines. I cannot find reference to a Diesel model Prado here with a non-turbo engine. Looking at a 2'nd hand car site I note that all the way back to 2000 any diesel models here have turbo engines. Didn't see any pre 2000 diesels listed. Once again, I think a thorough inspection of your vehicle by Toyota, or a well respected mechanic is needed. Things could well be different in France though concerning the turbo engines.

EDIT II: Found a 1993 Diesel Prado!!! Also turbo!!

Engine revs or revolutions per minute. On the instrument panel there are two big analogue (needle) gauges. One is the speedo, the other is a Tachometer or rev counter as some know them. At least the Prado's here in Australia do. The Tachometer measures how many revolutions per minute your engine is doing or basically, how fast it's going. I was interested how many revs you were doing when you changed gear. Here's what I did on my way to work this morning.

1st gear --- up to 30km/h ---- 3000rpm (Then change to 2nd)
2nd gear --- up to 50km/h --- 3000rpm (Then change to 3rd)

Is it possible to have your gearbox stuck in H4 but your gear lever read H2? I've never had this happen or have heard of it happening. I'm no expert on gearboxes, but I suppose if your gear lever and associated linkages were seriously bent / damaged it's possible. Maybe if someone also really forced the 4WD gear lever it could happen I guess. Try selecting all options with the stubby lever (H2, H4, N, L4), at least then you will know where the small gear lever should sit for each option. You'll definitely know when you've got L4 because you'll be going a LOT slower. Remember though to put it back to H2 for normal driving, as driving in H4 or L4 on bitumen roads can cause damage.

At the end of the day Giftsmas you'll need a good mechanic to look at the Prado. There's only so much that can be described on a forum like this without things getting confusing fast.

Hope it works out for you.

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

How is it going giftsmas?

That cirtainly sounds to be a gearbox/ transfer case issue now.
Unless it is noise from the back or possibly front differential

But a well trusted gearbox specialist would be the next stop im affraid ($$$$)
A Toyota service centre would be a perfect place if you dont mind paying a bit extra for their expertice and brand knowledge.
If you have safe/ sturdy workshop stands you could lift your whole vehicle clear of the ground and then run the vehicle through each gear and the transfer case through each mode of operation. Do not get under the vehicle unless it is completely safe, dont use your standard vehicle jack/ jacks.

Actually, if you select N on you 4X4 lever that would isolate the drive to the diffs and you could start your engine and turn the gearbox, and the input shaft in the transfer case, in all gears as if you were driving on the road. This can be done at home with the wheels on the ground. If the noise is still there you have eliminated the differentials. And if the noise is not there it could be anywhere from the transer case output shaft to the wheels, front or back.

Also a check of the oil in the gearbox and transfer case will show sings of metal if there is a bearing or shaft/gear problem. (but if the oil was changed recently it might still look clean)
The gearbox and transfer cases have seperate drain plugs.

But keep us informed of your findings, we are interested to know whats wrong.
And good luck.