diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[Gone Bush Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Gone Bush]

Apologies if I have missed this answer in this thread, but how many microns is the Toyota OEM filter? I have fitted the Racor 230r 10 micron before the OEM.

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

toyota factoy filter 7-10 micron --depending on who you listen to

as for water sepration - factory unit has seperator - as do most aftermarket units which some claim up to 99.99% water removal

[Fronty Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fronty]

How many dollars are we talking to have a secondary filter installed? Couple hundred?

[Gone Bush Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Gone Bush]

Hi Fronty - have a look at this thread.

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-2007-GXL-Auto

In January I paid US$229.20 including hoses.

[dazznat Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close dazznat]

Hi guys

Unfortunately I have another car to add to the list. *My situation is very similar to others I have read in this forum and happened in the last fortnight, 2006 d4d, owned since new, always serviced, 110,000kms, had just started looking into why it was blowing smoke and cruising down the highway the engine stopped. *Turns out oil was leaking past the injector seals and most likely have burnt a hole through 2 or 3 pistons. *Am now looking at a short engine rebuild and a bill of approx *$7k, assuming they find nothing else wrong! *What is even more frustrating is that the knock was reported to Toyota at the 20,000k service but no action taken as it was "just normal". *I have rung Toyota but just like others have commented, I got nowhere. *This whole situation seems ridiculous and warranty or not, Toyotas product is obviously faulty with this motor, they admit that in Europe and surely they should have to pay for costs but what can you do, I've got a car I need to get back on the road so have no choice but to find the money. *Has anyone out there had any luck at all??

[Baileys Diesel Group Member Find all posts View Profile Close Baileys Diesel Group]

HI Guys;

Little out of my Jurisdiction here i fully appriciate; however we're looking for a Euro 4 1KD equiped Prado that needs its injectors done. We're offering a discounted service in exchange for a few days so we can complete our DIY guide + Video. Anyway, no more commercialisms here, if you're interested, drop down to the market place section under Baileys Diesel Group and the thread titled 'looking for a Prado'.

Thanks

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Hi all, in jan last year I purchased from a dealer a 120 series late 2006 d4 diesel gxl auto with 80,000 kms on the clock. My mate used to own it from new and he towed a 18 foot van around oz, never thrashing it and had services done every 10,000 at toyota dealers. Due to the fact that it was never cold enough in the morns he had never heard any rattles. From the moment I took delivery of it and working in southern Victoria I literaly had a heart attack when I started hearing the dreaded rattle. toyota told me it was the injectors when its cold and nothing for me to worry about. After talking to lots of owners who said they had the noise but was assured it was normal and not to worry. After my 3 month warranty had run out, I had my prado backed up my drive way to hook on my trailor (motor warm) I started the motor and it had trouble cranking over for a second and when it fired a huge puff of white smoke from the exaust engulfed the car. Not happy jan! I went to a totota dealer who told me he hadnt heard of this happening before but probably just water in exaust. I foolishly accepted his answer. At the 100,000 km mark I had my mechanic service it and told him I was going to tow my new van 2.5 ton up to queensland and back and my concerns re/ white smoke on start up hot cold when on slight incline (nose down) He dropped the sump, as he said it was easy to do so on this model and bugger me the oil pick up was 80% blocked! He cleaned it, changed oil etc and off i went on my trip. the prado went well towing averaging 17.5 ltrs per 100 kms, never used any oil or water and I had some shocking head winds and hills to climb. I tend to drive like "uncle Arthur" when towing! Once I was told about Prado point forum I started reading all you posts on injector seals etc I advised my mechanic at the 110,000 service to check the seals etc.

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Continued: My mechanic found No 1 injector seal crook so he relaced all of them, fuel pipes, etc and had the injectors tested. They tested ok accept the return quantity values were down to 5% on 3 injectors. he said i would probably get 12 to24 months out of them before i would notice a lack of power when towing up a hill one day and that the engine light would come on and the motor would partially shut down to protect itself. by this time the injectors would have done 130,000kms and would need replacing. What Im asking is, is this true? Or could i be risking the motor going bang? Also is it possible that because of the carbon build up on the pick up and seal damage for who knows how long could the bores/ pistons etc be damaged? The Prado goes like a beauty and doesnt use oil or blow excessive smoke so I really dont want to get rid of it. As you have already guessed im not very mechanically minded when it comes to engines but i try to look after and prevent things from happening. Sorry for the essay but I thought a full back ground was needed. Cheers Dave.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday davelozt

Very wise & friendly advise to follow below from John!

Your options here in QLD is to take it to QCAT. All the cases that I have known about have won a settlement from Toyota Australia.
It's pretty straight forward in your case as the seats have failed leading to this problem. TMC have redesigned the seats and now are coated. Different part number and everything. They should have been replaced at the valve clearance service.
In New Zealand, Toyota Service are replacing these seats and seals every 45,000 kms as part of the service schedule. As long as you can present your case well and the vehicle has been serviced by the book, you will win your case, because of the NZ reason.
You can PM me if you want. Provide your phone number so I can ring you.
John.

You say your rig is a 2006 model. If this is the case it would be safe to say that you are running the None-DLC fuel injectors which are "not" as resilient to the now ULSD (Ultra Low Sulpha Diesel). Diesel used to be 500ppm approx 2-3yrs ago to the now 10ppm (Parts Per Million).

Asking would the injectors make it a further "12 to 24 months" in all honesty is like asking how long is a piece of string?

If i have read your story correctly you have only done 110,000km to date and had a short motor re-build (Or maybe just injector seals replaced etc??) but the old fuel injectors re-fitted to date?.. You must be aware of the fact that you are running none DLC fuel injectors (If still originals from new) on low sulpher fuel which means they are being exposed to premature wear due to low sulpher content (Sulpher was a good lubricant in the fuel and reduced wear on moving parts).

I am still not sure if you did have a short motor re-build or just injector seals replaced and oil pick-up cleaned?

Conclusion: Given the history of events to your engine a fair answer would be "yes" i would change the 4 x injectors to the new DLC type IMHO (In My Honest Opinion) and if the rig goes well the odds are the engine is ok

Its a case of new injectors Vs possible engine?

What is a DLC Injector?
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post389581

Hope this helps on some clarity!

Cheers

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Gday davelozt

Very wise & friendly advise to follow below from John!



You say your rig is a 2006 model. If this is the case it would be safe to say that you are running the None-DLC fuel injectors which are "not" as resilient to the now ULSD (Ultra Low Sulpha Diesel). Diesel used to be 500ppm approx 2-3yrs ago to the now 10ppm (Parts Per Million).

Asking would the injectors make it a further "12 to 24 months" in all honesty is like asking how long is a piece of string?

If i have read your story correctly you have only done 110,000km to date and had a short motor re-build (Or maybe just injector seals replaced etc??) but the old fuel injectors re-fitted to date?.. You must be aware of the fact that you are running none DLC fuel injectors (If still originals from new) on low sulpher fuel which means they are being exposed to premature wear due to low sulpher content (Sulpher was a good lubricant in the fuel and reduced wear on moving parts).

I am still not sure if you did have a short motor re-build or just injector seals replaced and oil pick-up cleaned?

Conclusion: Given the history of events to your engine a fair answer would be "yes" i would change the 4 x injectors to the new DLC type IMHO (In My Honest Opinion) and if the rig goes well the odds are the engine is ok

Its a case of new injectors Vs possible engine?

What is a DLC Injector?
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post389581

Hope this helps on some clarity!

Cheers

Thanks for your reply skywalkerrun. No the engine has not been rebuilt. My mechanic replaced the seals, fuel pipes and necessary gaskets and had the injectors tested. All up $1390. ($500 for fuel pipes,$280 for injector testing, 5hours labour and bits. ) I didnt think that was to bad. he quoted me $2000 to replace injectors on top of the $1390, but adviced me to stick with old injectors for time being. In hind sight i should of taken him up on his offer but i hadnt done any homework/research on pradpoint. Because of your sound advice, im toying with trying the Bailey replacment injectors for $1000 plus labour. (2 year warranty). What do you reckon? Cheers Dave

[Fronty Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fronty]

My 07 D4D was rattling quite badly on cold startup (75,000 kms). I told Toyota about this when the issue began about 18 months ago (and a few more times since). So I took it to an independent diesel specialist and they checked the injector values and they were within spec, however suggested I change them.
I then contacted my Toyota dealer (as I have about a week remaining on my extended warranty) and they checked the values and said that the car was fine. They re-flashed the ECU and put another bottle of injector cleaner (5 so far) in it. They told me to drive it for 1,000kms and see if the noise subsides. They told me, that if I still have the issue they will replace the injectors free of charge. Well, this morning (2 days after I collected it from Toyota), the car starting running really rough, it appears to have gone into limp mode and my 'check engine' light is permanently illuminated. I guess I'm calling them first thing tomorrow morning.

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

My 07 D4D was rattling quite badly on cold startup (75,000 kms). I told Toyota about this when the issue began about 18 months ago (and a few more times since). So I took it to an independent diesel specialist and they checked the injector values and they were within spec, however suggested I change them.
I then contacted my Toyota dealer (as I have about a week remaining on my extended warranty) and they checked the values and said that the car was fine. They re-flashed the ECU and put another bottle of injector cleaner (5 so far) in it. They told me to drive it for 1,000kms and see if the noise subsides. They told me, that if I still have the issue they will replace the injectors free of charge. Well, this morning (2 days after I collected it from Toyota), the car starting running really rough, it appears to have gone into limp mode and my 'check engine' light is permanently illuminated. I guess I'm calling them first thing tomorrow morning.

Good luck Fronty. Will be interested on the out come. Cheers Dave

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

Good luck Fronty. Will be interested on the out come. Sorry for double up message. I cant seem to work out how to delete a quote as yet.

[Budgey Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Budgey]

I'm certain mine has got markedly louder after I used fuel system and injector cleaner last week!

[davelozt Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close davelozt]

OK, Uncle Arthur, white smoke is unburnt diesel fuel, not good for a CRD engine. I hope that your mechanic changed out the old seats to the new designed coated seats as that's what causes the blow by problem. The seals will never stop that sort of pressure that are mounted further up on the injector housing.
Pretty cheap prices there from your local mechanic as well, seeing a full set of new pipes is $530.00 odd trade from Toyota Parts. 5 hours on a 120 model is pretty quick too.
Baileys are a pretty good company. They don't go into things half hearted if you know what I mean. As long as you got more than 100,000 kms out of a set of their injectors, it's pretty cheap really. The cheapest new ones that we all know about is Amayama, which is about $1,520.00 for the set of four.
I mean, the Bailey Group overall is pretty anal with the work that they do. If anyone is going to pull off over hauling these injectors, it's them. I think this is worth a go and as long as you keep an eye out on the range with the injectors, as you have to do with new ones as well, I can't see these injectors being a problem.
So Dave, I think it is time for you to check the range on those injectors in cold start. For your information, the range is from +3.0 to -3.0. You will need someone with a diagnostic tool or the Intelligent Tester tool II. I think that this is a better way of testing them, in real time. Anything outside of the range there, is a bin job or an exchange unit with Baileys. I recommend changing out the whole four as a set.
The test as above shouldn't really be over $80.00 now.
The Roo.

Sorry Roo, I meant seats and seals. My mechanic said the seats had a different part number from the original Toyota no, so i can only assume that they are the new coated type. Also when i get the baily injectors fitted by my mechanic, will he have to replace the seats again $24.20 or can he use the ones he has just replaced? Also will i have to take it to Toyota to have it reflashed? When i can get my head around how to attach a copy of the injector report to this post i will, as it doesnt make a lot of sense to me. Cheers Dave