diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

and as far as I can tell, Toyota doesn't even look at the P/U screen on a service...

I asked a few times and was finally told no one in the service dept has an inspection camera that will fit. So I bought one and give it to them to use.

[psychoaussie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close psychoaussie]

G'Day guys.

Have my 07 Prado (D4-D) booked in for Timing Belt change on Monday (yes its an easy 20 min job, but I am lazy and can't be bothered to do myself these days)

I also asked about the "Death Rattle" The Toyota Tech advised me there is a software update available for the Injector Computer System that apparently rectifies this problem. Costing me $110 for the software which is a bit rude. If it fixes it I'll be happy to part with my $$$.

Anyway I will post Wed, Thurs of next week after driving it a few days and let you know how it goes. Here's hoping I wont be waking the neighborhood any more!!

Dave...

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Dave have you read all this thread? If not then I suggest you grab a coffee or tea or beer etc and start on page 1. If you have the dreaded knock or death rattle then a reflash is a waste of money and you need to get Toyota to check the feedback values on the injectors. Also how many ks on the 120? If you are over 100,000 I would seriously consider getting the water pump replaced when they do the timing belt (neither is a 20 minute job if you include all the undoing and doing up).

Once you are schooled up have a read of the Baileys thread too.

Now waiting for more questions...

[psychoaussie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close psychoaussie]

Tears, Tears and more tears!!! Best I grab a carton tonight and start reading!
Thanks for the heads up!
My 120 has 150K (Hence replacing the T-Belt.)

I am only going off what the Toyo Mech told me about the rattle. He said it fixes the problem. I am only a humble Builder and have no idea on cars (well not much idea anyway) with Diesels as this is my first 1.

Dave

[cfryback Find all posts View Profile Close cfryback]

After reading this thread, I WAS hoping to push the injectors to 185K - next big service....but that is a moot point for me.

psychoaussie, I can ONLY suggest after my lesson, that you get the injectors changed and inspect the oil pickup screen. Otherwise, well lets just say I'm on the hook for over $10K...

[psychoaussie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close psychoaussie]

Thanks cfryback. I was just about to ask if anyone could give me the recommended fix in a nutshell. (Most prominent rectification) after all 178 pages had been compiled to the 1 or 2 likely problems.

So from your post cfryback it appears replacement of injectors asap and cleaning of the oil pick up filter (gauze)

Should I also not waste my $110 on the software upgrade?? as mjrandom noted. I will also ask Toyota to check the Feedback values on injectors while its getting the T-Belt replaced.

Regards
Dave.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

In a nutshell the 120 D4D came out with 3 different specs for the injectors. Up to Sep 07 was the inital type then an interim variety for Oct and Nov (my 120 fell into this category) then from Dec on a DLC (or Diamond Like Coating or similar acronym for hard coated) injector was the norm to end of production on the 120 series engine. Putting aside any problems from water in the fuel or algae it is surmised that the non DLC wears out. There is more than one mechanism and SkyWalker has a pretty good theory in one of his later posts (#1692) suggesting that the ECU plays with the injection quantities to compensate for lack of combustion. Also when cold as the fuel from worn injectors is poorly atomised this leads to incomplete combustion, in the worst case excess fuel can pool on the piston and when it gets hotter it can go bang. That is problem 1. Problem 2 is leaking injector seats which allow combustion gases to enter the rocker space, this hot gas burns the oil which returns to the sump as lumpy carbonised sticky shit (this is the official term). This stuff then gets sucked onto the oil pickup screen and can ultimately block the screen and starve the engine of oil as per cfryback's experience and pic. Probably quite a few generalisations there but that is a quickie. Now this doesn't happen to all engines and as far as I have been able to tell it is a very small proportion of D4D engines made. There are lots that have done many many km with no problems. That though doesn't help you as it very much sounds like you have injectors that are out of range.

I assume from the age and ks that you do not have Toyota extracare warranty? If you do have the warranty then put it in the hands of the dealer and provided your fuel system is clean and service history good they should look after it as they did with my 120. However if you don't you have a couple of choices. Either to go with a good diesel fitter and Denso stock parts (same as Toyota only without the expensive box) or Baileys for a refurbished set of injectors. Either way it is $2k to $3k for the fix. The new parts have the new injectors and the new seats so all is good. Toyota can charge about $10k for the same scope out of warranty.

As cfryback has said get the sump screen checked when the timing belt is done Monday, should have an oil change anyway if they are doing a full service. Some suggest running an oil flush before the oil change which will help remove the sticky stuff from galleries. You need to talk that through with your mechanic.

Suggest that you pm both The Roo and Baileys with you info and see if they have anyone local to you who can do the work if you do not have warranty. But as a priority get the injector feedback values read on Monday. This should be done cold but you will get an idea where your injectors are regardless. Check the sump strainer when the oil is dropped and if it is fouled have the sump removed and the screen cleaned.

And as I said I would be getting the water pump changed too while all the naughty bits are exposed on the front of the engine.

Michael

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday psychoaussie

I also asked about the "Death Rattle" The Toyota Tech advised me there is a software update available for the Injector Computer System that apparently rectifies this problem. Costing me $110 for the software which is a bit rude. If it fixes it I'll be happy to part with my $$$.
Dave...

In all honesty the software up-date is a band-aid fix for worn injectors! Lol... It only re-arranges the the pri-pilot on cold start!

Lets face it!! Think about it!.. They say there is a software update (Meaning they got the software programme wrong hence the update! Bit like the gearbox update for shitty flat spot on the 150's) then they turn around and want to charge you for it??

They are really turning into true diplomats where they tell you to go to hell and then you thank them and then pay them for telling you to go to hell!! LMAO!

Fit new injectors and the death rattle will be fixed anyway! (Best advise is to pay a diesel mechanic to do the injectors and not toyota! Just my honest opinion only!

Cheers

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Im sure the softwre update in OZ is the same we have here in NZ. Its a de-tune on the engine and is not reversible, ie once the software upgrade has been done - you cant go back to the OEM program
Yes it does adjust the pilot injections to mask what is a problem inside the actual injector (as we all know)

Suprised that no one in Oz has been interested in the injectors I can supply from Toyo NZ..
complete kit with injectors, seals, and pipes ( all genuine parts ) kits to suit Euro 3 and Euro 4 engines
Kits are approx $1700 AUD at current exchange rates

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Im sure the softwre update in OZ is the same we have here in NZ. Its a de-tune on the engine and is not reversible, ie once the software upgrade has been done - you cant go back to the OEM program
Yes it does adjust the pilot injections to mask what is a problem inside the actual injector (as we all know)

Suprised that no one in Oz has been interested in the injectors I can supply from Toyo NZ..
complete kit with injectors, seals, and pipes ( all genuine parts ) kits to suit Euro 3 and Euro 4 engines
Kits are approx $1700 AUD at current exchange rates

Sorry Rick, I forgot about your posts when I wrote my stuff today.

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Checked today - its with 4 new toyo pipes , no need to replace the pipe from the high pressure pump to the common rail
NEW injectors and seals part #'s as detailed four pages back
Yes I can seperate the shipment and send in two lots if you wish

current exchange rate make these just $1740 AUD shipped in one package or $1780 if shipped in two packages

plus GST at your end if applicable (charged by customs OZ to you)

[mumstruk Member Find all posts View Profile Close mumstruk]

Hi Guys.
Mine is the same, happens every winter. We now have 95000 Kays on the clock and our old girl has never missed a beat. There are multiple posts about this issue. But i think Random and Roo have hit the nail on the head for all of us.
Cheapest 'fix ' for me is to let it warm up. I made lots of complaint at the dealers at the time but nothing was really done about it. Hope the 150 is better, about to upgrade.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

But those bloody annoying chimes every time somebody's bum hits a seat or you put a bag on the seat until the seatbelt is fitted. And hill descent for idiots. And that high/low range selector switch - come on, real 4WDs have a lever!

[psychoaussie Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close psychoaussie]

Had the timing belt done and the PC upgrade software. Injector tested fine (according to Toyota) no rattle since its been done. (3 Days) sounds like it did when I bought it. Anyway I guess I will see how long it lasts.

Dave

[Rick NZ Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rick NZ]

Had the timing belt done and the PC upgrade software. Injector tested fine (according to Toyota) no rattle since its been done. (3 Days) sounds like it did when I bought it. Anyway I guess I will see how long it lasts.

Dave

An now lacks power ?- the software upgrade is a de-tune