diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

mjforder I haven't heard the deadly rattle (and I hope I never will) but it seems from the reports it is bad enough for people to think the engine is about to fly off the mounts. And I would guess that the noise is pretty much unaffected whether the engine is running against the torque convertor or not whereas your engine is just loading a little through windage in the gearbox. Mav or others any coment on this? I did notice that our D4D (wife's daily driver) had the idle up button accidentally pushed in and it is now cold enough in Brisbane for the button to have an effect so check that too.

Michael - idle-up definitely off. Mine doesnt sound bad - it just feels bad when idling - sorta like missing but i know its a diesel so there isnt a spark etc. Having a chip added (www.morepower.com) has made no difference - which is good (for the chip) - but not so for the overall things.

As for my wife having the car.....nah. Prado boot = bigger than Tiida boot. Bottomline, Prado allows for more stuff to pack in from her shopping trips.

:shock:

[Johnk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Johnk]

Mav,

When was your vehicle built? I remember just after the Japan earthquake (May last year) the production of Toyota vehicles stopped because Toyota could not produce/obtain components. Were the injectors for the D4D one of those components? Has a batch of faulty injectors been used on some vehicles? It may not all be associated to fuel.
:shock:

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Mav, I know you are probably no clearer on this at the moment but have you been told by Toyota that they will not honour the warranty for repairs? No, not at the moment and as far as I can tell after talking with Toyota today it looks to be covered under warranty, phew!
From reading the various posts here and the odd bit of information from the web it seems that the symptoms start with the rattle or rough idle when the engine is cold. This makes sense. If the damage is worn injectors/excessive clearance then the atomisation of the diesel will be poorer and with a cold engine that will translate to rough idle/running. Once the engine is warmed up it can better cope with the poorer atomisation of the fuel. The oily smear observed by some around the exhaust also shows incomplete combustion. Power should be reduced though in all liklihood hard to measure and the injectors would continue to degrade if the wear continues until the engine begins to misfire because the diesel is not being burnt properly. Increased fuel consumption as well. Some other posts mention that Toyota give the injectors a rating and within limits the injector is still ok but the fact is that the injectors are damaged/worn just not bad enough to replace. Correct, my fuel consumption is still below 10l/100k and there is no indications of the damge by way of ECU codes etc. The only symptoms I have is that it sounds like a Sherman tank when it is cold but after it warms up it runs smoothly and is quiet.
That the damage can be incurred long before the symptoms develop make it hard to pin point a partcular fuel load though if you use one brand you at least have a chance to single out the responsible party. Maybe everyone should keep recipts for 6 months though unless you keep samples again hard to prove unless you stick with one brand. Personally I don't think it is related to dirty fuel just poor quality diesel in Australia in general. As Matt says if they remove the sulphur then they are effectively removing the lubrication.
I agree 100% with clifton that we should be able to drive to any service station anywhere and get fuel without worrying about potential damage. Part of that responsibilty is with Toyota to ensure that the filtration is fit for purpose and the other with the fuel suppliers to ensure that the fuel they sell meets all the minimum standards for cleanliness and quality. It is not the owners fault if either of these two parties fall down in their job.

I intend writing to my dealer and Toyota outlining what I have learned and asking what Toyota's official position is. At my last service I asked what is Toyota's stance on additional fuel filters and was told that it is ok. Time to investigate further but the problem is we don't know the root cause. Is it solvents in the fuel, particles in the fuel, water? Hard to filter out the problem if you cannot identify it. I am going to fit a supplemental CAV filter to mine after this experience.
Good luck with the warranty claim and for anyone whose D4D is showing symptoms please keep updating this forum, who knows together we may be able to get Toyota to accept their role in this problem. It is going in all day tomorrow to have the new injectors fitted.
Michael

Cheers Mav

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Mav,

When was your vehicle built? I remember just after the Japan earthquake (May last year) the production of Toyota vehicles stopped because Toyota could not produce/obtain components. Were the injectors for the D4D one of those components? Has a batch of faulty injectors been used on some vehicles? It may not all be associated to fuel.
:shock:

Mine was a September 07 built Prado which was delivered on the 01 Nov 07.

I think I made a comment at the time that I hope there would not be sub standard parts used in these timeframe builds due to the earthquake. I think I also siad that we might see a rash of warranty claims happening mid 08. :shock:

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

Mav - does that mean you can make Sat?

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Mav - does that mean you can make Sat?

Maybe, depends what occurs tomorrow. I will know more tomorrow night.

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

Hmm....yell out if you want/need a lift. Afterall, with all of us able to drive our rigs at Morgan and busy/pre-occupied in the quarry - someone has to "hop out" and cook the BBQ lunch!!

:wink: :wink:

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Hmm....yell out if you want/need a lift. Afterall, with all of us able to drive our rigs at Morgan and busy/pre-occupied in the quarry - someone has to "hop out" and cook the BBQ lunch!!

:wink: :wink:

Yeah thanks mate :lol: seriously though if I don't have the Prado back on the road I will have to bail out of the trip. It is too much of a hassel with kids seats and all the associated crap that goes with them. Thanks for the offer though. :wink:

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

No wucky curries. Hope all goes well 2morro.

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

Funny Thing Happened Between Toyota Calling me yesterday...and me collecting car today. Now they say they checked all diagnostics and injectors all "within spec" and they could not replicate the noise. They have "referred matter to Toyota Head Office Technical" . rather wierd after yesterdays phone call to say all the stuff in my previous posts about what they "think it could be". Today... they are very defensive... wont say anything other than its referred to H/O. Well as it happens car is booked in Tuesday for the 40K Service. Will check it tomorrow morning and if it makes noise, I am dropping car off Monday night, (taking the key so they cant start it ) and turning up Tuesday to demonstrate. The difference in attitude today was wierd. Very "official"... cant say more... technicians said all within spec... hmmmmmm. Will post more tomorro morning!

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Well my fears of not getting this fixed before going back to Alice have eventuated. After leaving the car with the dealership service dept from start of business this morning at their request I rang at 3:30 pm only to find they have not touched the car cause they failed to receive the injectors.

According to the service dept, although they were given the authority to do the injector replacement, Toyota failed to authorise the suppliers of the injectors to send them to the dealer. Not only that but apparantly the supplier says they do not have any injectors to send as they are out of stock at the moment due to high demand.

So I guess the D4D is going through injectors at a high rate across the country.

Anyway they put me on hold for a few minutes and came back and told me that they had one injector that they could use to replace the worst of mine with and that should get me back to Alice and have them done up there.

So I should be able to pick the car up at around 5:30 pm.

What a shamozzle.

[wolfgangk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wolfgangk]

Over here in (cold) Germany this is a well known problem with the injectors. Toyota and the dealers usually know this and change the parts without endless discussions. I don't think it has to do with the fuel quality and additives.

But if you replace the injectors make sure it's done properly with the correct parts! Especially the copper seals for the injectors are critical!

In a german Toyo forum they discuss a case where wrong (or incorrectly installed) seals lead to fatal damages. The engine pulls 'leak air', runs too lean, uncontrolled combustions lead to a melted piston.

In Europe they now also control the screen of the oil-pump pick-up for coking. It can happen that because of the broken copper seals the 'blow by' heats up the engine oil too much, resulting in deposits at the screen and blocking support.

The seals are only a minor part... but they can have huge consequences. So you better make sure you give your car to a pro who knows what to do.

Wolfgang

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Over here in (cold) Germany this is a well known problem with the injectors. Toyota and the dealers usually know this and change the parts without endless discussions. I don't think it has to do with the fuel quality and additives.

But if you replace the injectors make sure it's done properly with the correct parts! Especially the copper seals for the injectors are critical!

In a german Toyo forum they discuss a case where wrong (or incorrectly installed) seals lead to fatal damages. The engine pulls 'leak air', runs too lean, uncontrolled combustions lead to a melted piston.

In Europe they now also control the screen of the oil-pump pick-up for coking. It can happen that because of the broken copper seals the 'blow by' heats up the engine oil too much, resulting in deposits at the screen and blocking support.

The seals are only a minor part... but they can have huge consequences. So you better make sure you give your car to a pro who knows what to do.

Wolfgang

Thanks Wolfgang,

I feel really peeved now cause I just picked up the car and found out that they picked the best of three bad ones taken out of another Prado to get mine running again. They did not have any new seals and re-used what was already there.

They asked if my local dealer had done any of these and they were really hesitant about sending me to them if they had not done the task before. Knowing my local dealer who can screw up an oil change I would hate to give them this task to do. So I will be bringing the Prado back down when they get the injectors in from Denso.

I really hope I do not sustain further engine damage out of this.

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I just remembered what the technician said when we were talking about the "death rattle". He said " Yours are really bad, it is deafening when its cold. We swaped out the worst one which has quietened it down a little but it is still bad. Hopefully you wont blow the motor before they get changed out."

That is encouraging isn't it :shock: :x :evil:

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

How many klms do you have on your Prado Mav?