diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

How many klms do you have on your Prado Mav?

The rattle started at just after 10,000 km and progressively got worse. I now have 30,000 km on it.

I was lulled into a false belief that the noise was normal which is what people were being told by Toyota. I now know it is not normal and if you have a D4D that is starting to make the "death rattle" then take in quick smart to your dealer.

Just for the record I have only used diesel from Shell except for about three tanks worth from BP and one tank from Caltex. I have never used Bio-diesel or any additives.

[wolfgangk Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wolfgangk]

The D4D is a rather modern engine. Of course there is still the typical Diesel sound, especially when cold, but that should not change dramatically within a few thousand km's.

Something like '... The rattle started at just after 10,000 km and progressively got worse...' does not really sound normal, even if Toyota tries to tell you :roll:

Mev, you techies answer indeed is not very encouraging :shock:

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

The D4D is a rather modern engine. Of course there is still the typical Diesel sound, especially when cold, but that should not change dramatically within a few thousand km's.

Something like '... The rattle started at just after 10,000 km and progressively got worse...' does not really sound normal, even if Toyota tries to tell you :roll:

Mev, you techies answer indeed is not very encouraging :shock:

Tell me about it Wolfgang, after reading your earlier post I am not feeling to good about the whole D4D experience. Now wish I had gone petrol and changed to gas.

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Mav,

Sorry to hear about the old girl. What a let down to have such a great engine run like it's got a bucket of nuts and bolts in each cylinder! Hopefully the problem with these engines only comes down to a bad batch of injectors, if it's any worse Toyota will have a class action against it! :evil:

Good luck mate and hopefully your D4D lives a normal life after the repairs! (The proper repairs that is)

Crammy

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

I wonder at what stage would Toyota come clean and decide a product recall?? If the issue is "not normal" - and sufficient in quantity - surely someone in R&D has done a root casue analysis and diagnosed the issue and come up with a workable solution??? Hopefully that solution has come into the "now" generation of vehicles??

Afterall - we are talking about a Toyota...not some 0.5 generation 3rd world manufacturer.

When i started as a Project Engineer for an automotive component manufacturer after graduating, i saw how early defects were "handled" and later turned into fast tracked R&D projects to reduce warranty claims. The end-user was never informed of which version of hardware (or if software, firmware etc) was installed in their car.....and i know nothing has changed in the last 10 yrs...

Any manufacturer worth their reputation would not rely on ignorance or just put up with it. That is, unless there's a diabolical issue - which unfortunately for Mav and other who have sufferred it - is not comforting - but if the sales of D4D were since first launch (2002??) around the 100,000 worldwide and even at a 0.5% failure rate, that would mean 500 worldwide. Sadly, as an engineer - I know some manufacturers would be happy with that and just accept it.

Regardless, and to close this little post (!) - let's just hope and pray the issue is contained (not continuining in brand new production runs...) and the resolution is covered by Toyota for those currently (or soon to be) with it - whether in or out of warranty.

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I wonder at what stage would Toyota come clean and decide a product recall?? If the issue is "not normal" - and sufficient in quantity - surely someone in R&D has done a root casue analysis and diagnosed the issue and come up with a workable solution??? Hopefully that solution has come into the "now" generation of vehicles??

Afterall - we are talking about a Toyota...not some 0.5 generation 3rd world manufacturer.

When i started as a Project Engineer for an automotive component manufacturer after graduating, i saw how early defects were "handled" and later turned into fast tracked R&D projects to reduce warranty claims. The end-user was never informed of which version of hardware (or if software, firmware etc) was installed in their car.....and i know nothing has changed in the last 10 yrs...

Any manufacturer worth their reputation would not rely on ignorance or just put up with it. That is, unless there's a diabolical issue - which unfortunately for Mav and other who have sufferred it - is not comforting - but if the sales of D4D were since first launch (2002??) around the 100,000 worldwide and even at a 0.5% failure rate, that would mean 500 worldwide. Sadly, as an engineer - I know some manufacturers would be happy with that and just accept it.

Regardless, and to close this little post (!) - let's just hope and pray the issue is contained (not continuining in brand new production runs...) and the resolution is covered by Toyota for those currently (or soon to be) with it - whether in or out of warranty.

Well we can only hope Michael.

From the off the record talk today it would seem that the consensus is that "These sorts of problems should be expected with new technology that is just introduced." Their words not mine.

From my perspective, the D4D has been around now for sometime overseas and in the Hi-Lux here yet these problems are continuing.

Would anyone really go ahead and purchase a car knowing that it may need a major overhaul within 30,000 kms? I know I wouldn't, but maybe I am an exception to the norm and people are happy with this sort of life cycle. When the engine is new and working as spec'd then it is a brilliant engine no doubt about it but when its not then it is a slippery slope to the other side of the story.

[Hornet Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hornet]

Re: the quality of Australian diesel fuel. There were two damning articles in today's "Herald Sun" Cars Guide. One article was about the ever spiraling cost of diesel comparing to petrol and the other was an opinion of the Australian CEO (I think) of Mercedes Benz/Daimler. His verdict was our diesel fuel is not up to the standard accepted in Europe and the US. This poor quality diesel fuel will damage sales of new European cars here as modern diesel engines cannot perform satisfactorily when such a bad fuel is the only alternative. If I knew that I was going to read this post tonight, I would have definitely kept the newspaper for reference. Anyhow, it is all bad news to all of D4D proud owners including myself. My Prado has only done 8K so far, but I don't have any positive outlook on the ownership of the D4D powered car any more. It would be interested to know what resolution of his Prado's problem Mav have ended up with, keep us all posted and good luck.
Cheers to all.
Hornet
P.S. Anyone's interested in buying a 6 month old diesel Prado (non-rattling)? :wink:

[damonat Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close damonat]

i read this topic for the first time tonight,
and all i can do is cringe.
i'm glad i have a 1KZ.
on the bright side for me, the value of my prado might go up.
low blow, sorry couldn't help myself.
i've always had in the back of my mind something about AUST deisel being of a low/poor quanlity for some vehicles.
hope you D4D owners have a good outcome, cos no good so far (parts shortage)

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Hi Mav,
I am sorry the way it has turned out for you, and you are getting not quite NOS injectors with original copper seals :evil: I have seen many fuel injector and fuel valve copper seals used again some after being annealed some not. It is only a temporary fix and I hope that your NOS injectors do not suffer any blow - by on your trip back to Alice Springs.
The mechanics must have been satisfied that the old copper seals would hold for your trip, because if they don't then you will have wire drawn injector seats, wire drawing is scoring caused by combustion gasses bypassing the seals and cutting the alloy seat material.
This can be fixed on many cylinder heads by using a seat cutter tool and refacing the seat.
When you get to Alice remove the plastic Engine cover start your engine let it idle and carefully listen for any "choofing sound" around the fuel injectors and also look for any carbon/soot deposits around each injector body.
If you see or hear any of the above take it straight to your dealer and refuse to drive it as you will do damage to your cylinder head if left unchecked.
There are a couple of other simple tests the Tojo guys will know about and hopefully when you get your NEW Fuel injectors and sealing rings they will do these.
There are many Common Rail Diesel Engines around the country with heaps more being imported as I write, they are the flavour of the month with just about all O/S manufacturers. The test equipment and clean rooms required to service these fuel systems is Bloody expensive and require the operators to be meticulous, but I am sure local industry will head the call and there are a number of euro diesel test equipment suppliers able to ship out the goodies.

I have written this small spiel to help Mav a bit and to let others know that Engine manufactures are not infallible and as other members have stated Toyota would not be game to let this defect rest, it is not uncommon and Mercedes, MTU Detroit and other well known Engine manufactures will have documentary evidence of these issues.

Lets all hope that Toyota, Renault, Mercedes Benz, MAN. MTU Detroit etc. can put the weights on the major fuel suppliers if that is the root cause of these mechanical failures.

Just a few issues to think about.

[bitdist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bitdist]

From reading the various posts here and the odd bit of information from the web it seems that the symptoms start with the rattle or rough idle when the engine is cold.

:shock:

I also have noticed - and i think it goes back to day 1 of having the car - that when cold - or after a few mins of running and then stopping, when left in "drive" - it can idle very roughly. Putting it in "N" - does tend to settle things down somewhat. Not sure if this is "rough idling" - or a higher idle speed fighting my torque converter in the tranny whilst the motor is still warming up....or dare i say it....early days for the dreaded rattle....

:?: :?: :?:

That is exactly what is happening to me. Not every day though, maybe every third day. It probably started within 2k of new and yes drop into neutral then back tends to fix it up

So we have 2 doing this

not happy

cheers

[BrianR Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BrianR]

Toyota has taught the world how to manufacture and deliver customer value and any company worth it's salt is copying Toyota principles. This explains why Toyota is awash with cash reserves and GM, Ford etc. are in financial turmoil

But this praise of Toyota does not mean Toyota is the sole source of innovation or that Toyota design is automatically the best.

If Australian fuel is the root cause, what is happening with other high tech diesels? The Discovery 2.7V6 and Jeep 3.0V6 are high tech common rails with amazing power/torque output. Are they having any problems ?

Likewise how many Australian 3.0 D4D's are affected ? I'm hoping a mere handful but if not then we should find out as even Toyota will stone wall for as long as possible and our first loyalty should with thousands of Prado owners who have oulayed serious money.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Toyota has taught the world how to manufacture and deliver customer value and any company worth it's salt is copying Toyota principles. This explains why Toyota is awash with cash reserves and GM, Ford etc. are in financial turmoil.

Yup 5 out of the top 10 cars purchased in AU are Toyotas
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...830&vf=12&pg=2

But this praise of Toyota does not mean Toyota is the sole source of innovation or that Toyota design is automatically the best.

If Australian fuel is the root cause, what is happening with other high tech diesels? The Discovery 2.7V6 and Jeep 3.0V6 are high tech common rails with amazing power/torque output. Are they having any problems ?

That is an interesting question, I would like to know the answer too

Likewise how many Australian 3.0 D4D's are affected ? I'm hoping a mere handful but if not then we should find out as even Toyota will stone wall for as long as possible and our first loyalty should with thousands of Prado owners who have oulayed serious money.

Only one confirmed so far

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Well I can confirm only what the tech that is working on my Prado said and that is that it is a widespread problem and they have done a number of D4D's. Hence the reason I am now running with a dodgy injector that was taken out of a Prado a couple of weeks ago. Reason being is that there is a stock shortage of the injectors due to higher then expected demand.

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

Yep.. sure enough.. Sat/Sun/today.. each cold start... drive up the road with light throttle and it rattles its head off - dogs in street barking again!.

Its just not satisfactory to tell me the techo suddenly cant "replicate the noise"particularly after the first conversation (see earlied post). So now i have to do the following. Take vehicle to dealer after work today, lock it, take the key with me, and catch 2 buses home. Then tomorrow morning I have to get my wife to drive me across town by 7am, so I can pick up a deaf Toyota Technician and drive the car so he can hear it, then leave the car with them (40K service) so my wife can drive me to work and get to work herself.

You know, if i were a cynic i woudl think that perhaps they intend to somehow tag the cost of whatever rectification is needed..onto the service.. or put the old "banana peels"in it at service so it doesnt rattle when i pick it up?

You know... drive it till it "shits itself"as per another post here.... is what might happen if todays effort comes up with nought.

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Yep.. sure enough.. Sat/Sun/today.. each cold start... drive up the road with light throttle and it rattles its head off - dogs in street barking again!.

Its just not satisfactory to tell me the techo suddenly cant "replicate the noise"particularly after the first conversation (see earlied post). So now i have to do the following. Take vehicle to dealer after work today, lock it, take the key with me, and catch 2 buses home. Then tomorrow morning I have to get my wife to drive me across town by 7am, so I can pick up a deaf Toyota Technician and drive the car so he can hear it, then leave the car with them (40K service) so my wife can drive me to work and get to work herself.

You know, if i were a cynic i woudl think that perhaps they intend to somehow tag the cost of whatever rectification is needed..onto the service.. or put the old "banana peels"in it at service so it doesnt rattle when i pick it up?

You know... drive it till it "shits itself"as per another post here.... is what might happen if todays effort comes up with nought.

Now that sounds like the death rattle for sure. Best of luck Masso, it is a very involved proceedure to replace all the injectors and they are replaced as a set of 4. Also there is a process that the dealer has to follow with Toyota corporate as i is they who give the okay to replace the injectors so the dealer has to jump through some hoops to get the problem fixed.

Once Toyota corporate gives the dealer the authority to change out the injectors, Toyota corporate then have to give the authoriy to Denso to send the injectors from stock to the dealer. This is where I came unstuck, the dealer got the authority to change out the injectors but Toyota corporate failed to authorise Denso to send the injectors to the dealer. After speaking direct with Denso the dealer was informed that it would not have mattered anyway cause there was no stock to deliver. My dealer is now expecting my 4 injectors to arrive in a couple of weeks.