diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I have not said there is no injector issue, there obviously is, plenty of people have needed to replace these.

I am, and have said this before that I am in this thread "specifically" saying that a figure of 10% of D4D Prados having catastrophic failures is BS. If it were true anyone should be able to quickly point out the several hundred forum members here that have had issues, prove me wrong, bring up the hundreds of examples on this forum of blown motors (not just injectors that need changing).

If you read the Hilux forum you will find a long injector thread and loads of people taliking about rattly injectors and injectors out of spec and needing to change them, but I took the time to read the entire thread over there the other day and didn't find a single mention of an engine actually going bang.

As regards the stats thing being important to me, I only chimed in on this thread becasue 10% was quoted, and I questioned the accuracy of that 10%, mathematically the figures supplied to justify the figure were wrong, the annecdotal evidence on this forum doesn't support the figure either.

It is important that people question what other people post, thats what makes it a forum, interaction, questioning, learning. If my ascertation of 10% being BS then the numbers on this forum would show I was wrong and anyone here should easily be able to find the hundreds of cases that would indicate it was true, but nobody seems to be showing me those numbers to justify their statements.

No I am not scared about owning one, in fact I have intentions of buying another one when finances allow, I am very happy with my D4D and intend to hang onto it for a long time to come, so resale value means little to me as I am not planning on selling it in the forseable future.

Cheers Andrew

[rhs58 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rhs58]

I believe Admin of this site are aware of at least one very high profile member who was running a second account and having conversations with himself!

Not me (us?)......but in order to lighten things up:

"Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I"

Ease up fellas. Agree to disagree.

My take is that there's lots of injector failures out there, and a few engines going bang, and Toyota Aust seems to have taken a poor choice in how to deal with the issues (denial will ultimately come unstuck). Will be interesting to see where all this is in another 12 months. Precedents set overseas may ultimately work in Aus owners favour - meantime, keep your receipts if you've had to spend money on these problems. I'm in the fortunate position that I can afford the $ it takes to change out my injectors, or offload the problem before it becomes a problem and buy something else.....I feel for those like Sharon who find themselves in a very difficult and unenviable position and understand her angst.

[marrisy Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close marrisy]

Who does AJ120 work for? I now skip his postes. I have a friend who worked for an institution who did reserch on diffrent subjects, he told me how they used statistics to prove anny point to get grants.
Statistics= This is the conclusion we want, now find the facts that fit.
Science= These are the facts, what can we conclude from them.
Not sure how global warming fits in here.
So,, lets get back to Diesel rattle, my 2008 120 has had injector trouble/ reflash at 12000k and brake trouble finaly fixed under warrenty, had the knock and was reflashed again, is cold knocking again, just had the 60,000k service. At 52000k simply stoped on the side of the road and had to be towed, dirty fuel I was told. ( clean tank, fuel lines do filters.) Going to take it to Albany to get Dave to replace the injectors I think.
Roo, I may not agree with everything you print, However I find your views informative an educational, please don't let one ponce stop you from helping others.
Marrisy.

[SOL Find all posts View Profile Close SOL]

The link : www.amayama.com
Good on you Chris, good one mate.

I have just looked at this site. Went to the linked parts catalogue area and they do not have any 150 series in their.
Just thought I would pass it on.

SOL.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

I'm not sure if it really matters how many people have injector problems, if you have an issue it's a major problem. Just because some people have problems doesn't mean everyone will.

This forum is a great place to get support and I'm not sure why there is such a big fuss about who's right about the numbers.

Having said that reading about the problem can make you go looking for a problem where there isn't one. I know it's made me a bit paranoid.

I do wonder how many of the reported issues are just noisy injectors versus real problems. Like I said if you have an injector problem it's a big deal, and this forum is a great place to come for support.

And I still think that my Prado is the best car I have owned. I recently had my brother's mega expensive Audi for a while, and my kids told me all the reasons why they prefer the Prado. Regardless of issues, and most complex machines have some weakness , it's still a good car.

[Guest Close Guest]

The issue is that injector/seal replacement or inspection is not part of the normal maintenance schedule. Therefore, owners aren't expecting engine failures caused by these components and so get disappointed /angry at TMCA and conclude that this is a design fault when the engine fails. There's no point focusing on the statistics. The important numbers to concentrate on is the amount it costs to fix an engine failure.

Whether you want to believe if the issue is more common or not is up to you. There is a good preventative maintenance thread to refer to in order to avoid this problem (hopefully). But if it is too late for that, then the idea to come together to collectively prove that it is a design fault or under specified maintenance should be supported/pursued further.

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

The issue is that injector/seal replacement or inspection is not part of the normal maintenance schedule. Therefore, owners aren't expecting engine failures caused by these components and so get disappointed /angry at TMCA and conclude that this is a design fault when the engine fails. There's no point focusing on the statistics. The important numbers to concentrate on is the amount it costs to fix an engine failure.

Whether you want to believe if the issue is more common or not is up to you. There is a good preventative maintenance thread to refer to in order to avoid this problem (hopefully). But if it is too late for that, then the idea to come together to collectively prove that it is a design fault or under specified maintenance should be supported/pursued further.

amts - well said.

I'm not sure if it really matters how many people have injector problems, if you have an issue it's a major problem. Just because some people have problems doesn't mean everyone will.

This forum is a great place to get support and I'm not sure why there is such a big fuss about who's right about the numbers.

Having said that reading about the problem can make you go looking for a problem where there isn't one. I know it's made me a bit paranoid.

I do wonder how many of the reported issues are just noisy injectors versus real problems. Like I said if you have an injector problem it's a big deal, and this forum is a great place to come for support.

And I still think that my Prado is the best car I have owned. I recently had my brother's mega expensive Audi for a while, and my kids told me all the reasons why they prefer the Prado. Regardless of issues, and most complex machines have some weakness , it's still a good car.

krypto - well said too.

AJ120 and ntp, your arguments are leaving you in a very exposed position legally if your vehicles do have problems, and sure enough now you have up the chances of that happening. It's called karma. I am not including Wooley in this, well because he owns a 150 model.

Seriously TheRoo?

This thread was for all those people that found themselves in trouble so they could present this as evidence in court, and now you three are trying to screw that up as well. Are you, for all the other members out there that find themselves fighting Toyota Australia? Yes, the three of you are so clever aren't you.
I am glad you have chose to get into bed with these guys, as you really suit what they are about and what they stand for.

Seriously?

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

please don't let one ponce stop you from helping others.

So what are you trying to infer? I am pretty sure neither applies to AJ120.

Definition of ponce

noun
1. (derogatory) an effeminate man.
2. man who lives off a prostitute’s earnings

[Graceilyons64 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Graceilyons64]

I am very dissapointed in the comments that are being made here. How about working as a collective instead of making rude allegations.

I understood this site was to help people with a range of issues. Whether it be because of mechanical failure, or just to learn how to take care of you car.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Thanks for the feed back from everyone, both positive and negative, positive feedback is about outweighs the negative by quite a margin, so I guess you can't please all the people all the time.

I did think that due to some of the statements I have made I should go through this entire thread with a pen and paper and get some hard numbers on the issues, I know numbers upset some of you so I won't post them here. If anyone really wants to know they can message me.

Just to summarise though I was genuinely surprised at the results I got, genuinely surprised. I could not believe how few people in this thread have actually reported injector issues, I thought the issue was much worse than my analysis shows.

I know that may upset some of you, but feel free to spend 5 or 6 hours going through the thread and see for yourself, nothing I am making up, its all there for everyone to read.


Cheers Andrew

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

It probably got lost higher up in the thread, but I did the maths and assuming 115000 vehicles with the relevant D4D engine to get a meaningful idea of the failure rate you need to randomly survey around 2500-4000 vehicles (depending on the accuracy you want).

If it was done correctly that would be a starting point to make a case about the failure rate and something that TMC would have great difficulty disputing.

Toyota obviously have this information and the recent injector deal in NZ speaks for itself. Hopefully*with enough agitation they may do something in Oz, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Tazdevil Moderated member Find all posts View Profile Close Tazdevil]

Guys

I have spent the $3800 on getting new injectors and etc fitted and are very disapointed with the way Toyota are dealing with the whole injector issue, I feel that they should come to the party and have some sort of deal (similiar to the New Zealand deal $1200 full Injector, Seal, Pipe and etc replacement) I love my Prado and would not trade it for anything..everyone is having the same issue Nissan, Ford Holden..etc Love tha Prado you have the whole reason for being on this forum..everyone here should be here for the love of Prado

Cheers TazDevil

[Peter07 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Peter07]

I'm like Tazdevil, after recognizing what is being said on the forum, took my Prado to deisel specialist after motor started to rattle last winter at about 83k. Had a conversation with the Toyota dealer but it was obvious that they would charge me for testing and repairing quite a lot because I was out of warranty.
One of the injectors was out of range. After mechanic's recomendation I've replaced all 4 injectors, seals etc at the cost of $3300 with the new Denso injectors.
Am I pissed off and lost confidence in the car, you batcha. Though I did not have any other problems with the car.
I like my Prado but I am not sure now if I want to do and think about all these preventetive maintenance all the time and being sometimes on "the road" it would be a pain in the neck. I am thinking of getting rid off the problem and going to petrol powered 4x4.

[Heath74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Heath74]

Well said John. I think keeping the discussion away from what percentage of d4d s get this, and focusing to how can we take preventative steps.

In terms of state based mechanical days that's a great idea.

You could even start with just oil change and pick up inspection, and tolerance check.

I agree with your point about a bit of empathy for those that have suffered the catastrophic failure, must be heart breaking.

Personally my prado is my 4 th 4wd and easily the best I've owned, i dare say thats a common veiw. so finding away to manage this issue is important to lots of us.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

This thread has been running for nearly 5 years so I wouldn't expect to see any real developments in the next 12 months. TMC have moved on, the 150 has been around since late 2009 so many of those vehicles are already out of the 3 year manufacturer warranty. Only those with extended warranty have any hope of being covered with the remainder, just like those with the 120s, having to fund their own repairs should that occur. Many of those out of warranty vehicles would be given to other than Toyota dealers for repair so the true extent of any (not just injector/rattle) issues will never be known.
The wise and informed on this thread have encouraged regular servicing, additional filtering, monitoring of smoke emissions and injector values. Do that and get out and enjoy the great aussie outdoors in your Prado.