diesel rattle in D4D Prado

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

maybe someone with a rattler

Hey you just gave me a great idea for a mural on the hard wheel cover. Noe to get it priced up - One Rattle snake with attitude. :lol:

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

The saga continues... Dealer calls me today after first of "I have had enough " emails... Apparently Toyota wants my car to have a FULL SNAPSHOT OF DIAGNOSTICS ON COLD STARTUP ... AGAIN..., so they need the car for another 2 days. This means a loan car, no loan car available till 1st August. We rattle on till then.... (perhaps a simpler way would be to onforward Mav's sound files to Toyota... let em listen themselves! ) the dealer keeps telling me WE HAVNT FORGOTTEN, and THIS IS THE USUAL WAY FOR THING LIKE THIS TO BE INVESTIGATED... However dragging it on just makes me more pi_ _ _ ed off, makes me tell more people about my troubles, makes me less of a Prado diesel fan, makes me scour the car sales sites for what a Prado with 40K is worth... wonder what tradein I get on a Pootrol... hmmmmmm I think its getting to me!

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Hang in there Masso, at least they're not wiping their hands of it... yet!

Mav, I have had a crack at recording mine first thing in the morning, unfortunately I only have my phone so it's a bit dodgy. I can hear a difference with yours, you can hear a tiny crack especially when you rev it.

See what you think, I don't beleive mine has the same problems that some of you guys have (11,500kms), but is noticeably noisy when cold.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0mmjrjmezri

Cheers,

Crammy

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

Hang in there Masso, at least they're not wiping their hands of it... yet!

Mav, I have had a crack at recording mine first thing in the morning, unfortunately I only have my phone so it's a bit dodgy. I can hear a difference with yours, you can hear a tiny crack especially when you rev it.

See what you think, I don't beleive mine has the same problems that some of you guys have (11,500kms), but is noticeably noisy when cold.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0mmjrjmezri

Cheers,

Crammy

Crammy was that recorded outside the cab or with the window open?

I don't know about anyone else but I believe I do detect the broken baffle noise which is a bad injector it is not too bad at the moment but worth getting checked out at your next service or sooner if it gets noisier.

I will have my Prado again on Wednseday morning so I will wait till it is cold after I get home from work and try an outside cab recording.

[Pat Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pat]

I'm no diesel mech and I don't have a D4D.

I do, however, have a 2004 1KZTE and I almost have to buckle up and hang onto the steering wheel on cold morning starts! The inital 'cracking/clinking' that goes on is very disconcerting, but it goes away after approx 15 seconds. There is NO MORE RATTLING when accelerating/loading the engine. My problem is obviously different to the one in question. I believe its just the cold temp. I have also had this happen to a petrol car (Subaru Forester). Every time I go to the snow I get the same problem. But no rattles after 15 seconds.

Mav & Masso, I think you guys have a VERY relevant issue.

Here are my mechanically inexperienced thoughts:

If my engine heats up enough in 15 seconds (without any right foot encouragement), then surely the D4D should heat up enough to get over the initial 'cold-start hiccups'? Is it trying to keep giving itself a rich mixture (resulting in increased fuel consumption)? Maybe the ECU won't realise that it can settle back down again? No negative feedback loop???

How can an engine change so much in such a short time, from lets say 8,000ks & no prob, to 11,000ks & huge engine killing prob? What goes on at the 10,000k service? Pre-programmed ECU mods (mentioned earlier)?

I have no background in cars so ignore me if I just wrote a whole pile of @#$%.

Goodluck boys and girls.

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I'm no diesel mech and I don't have a D4D.

I do, however, have a 2004 1KZTE and I almost have to buckle up and hang onto the steering wheel on cold morning starts! The inital 'cracking/clinking' that goes on is very disconcerting, but it goes away after approx 15 seconds. There is NO MORE RATTLING when accelerating/loading the engine. My problem is obviously different to the one in question. I believe its just the cold temp. I have also had this happen to a petrol car (Subaru Forester). Every time I go to the snow I get the same problem. But no rattles after 15 seconds.

Mav & Masso, I think you guys have a VERY relevant issue.

Here are my mechanically inexperienced thoughts:

If my engine heats up enough in 15 seconds (without any right foot encouragement), then surely the D4D should heat up enough to get over the initial 'cold-start hiccups'? Is it trying to keep giving itself a rich mixture (resulting in increased fuel consumption)? Maybe the ECU won't realise that it can settle back down again? No negative feedback loop???

How can an engine change so much in such a short time, from lets say 8,000ks & no prob, to 11,000ks & huge engine killing prob? What goes on at the 10,000k service? Pre-programmed ECU mods (mentioned earlier)?

I have no background in cars so ignore me if I just wrote a whole pile of @#$%.

Goodluck boys and girls.

In my case it is stuffed injectors, been tested and confirmed by Toyota. My sound files let you hear my engine after the non functioning injector was replaced with a second hand injector that was removed from a Prado the week before for the same problems. Only at least this injector was still somewhat functioning whereas the one it replaced was totally non functional. The sound now is 100 times better than when I had the dead injector installed.

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

I purchase diesel based on price and convenience. Sometimes the majors, sometimes independants. For the life of me I cant imagine having to drive around trying to find "good quality"fuel to put in the truck. The damned thing is a 4x4, designed to be used in all sorts of harsh environments... not pussy footing around looking for fuel with 90kilo octaves devoid of bio whatchamecallit and taken from sterilised medical grade servo tanks. Equally, I am not going to continue to start up a 2007 model car in the shed and let it idle for 5 minuted before i use it.... Its not a 1917 model.....I dont have time for that rubbish....Mine is still ratting its *%*$*^off, and after its 40K service... it now seems to be slurping whatever fuel i give it, at an average of 17.5 lhk around town totally unladen after its longterm average of 12.5. Something is wrong and i am now about to hop on the bandwagon with Toyota BIGTIME. The dealer I purchased my car from has no idea, incompetent service personnel, and i am frankly pi_ _ed right off!
Prado aint my favourite truck right now!

Somewhere in the previous page or 3 someone asked if the D4D in other Toyotas ie Hilux had the same issue. A guy at work has a SR D4D 4WD with approx 12000km and it rattles. He bought it new as well. The rattle only started recently. His fuel consumption has increased hence my quoting the post above but he recently fitted an ARB winch bar so isn't sure if it is the rattle or the bar tha has caused the increase consumption.

[mjforder Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mjforder]

I purchase diesel based on price and convenience. Sometimes the majors, sometimes independants. For the life of me I cant imagine having to drive around trying to find "good quality"fuel to put in the truck. The damned thing is a 4x4, designed to be used in all sorts of harsh environments... not pussy footing around looking for fuel with 90kilo octaves devoid of bio whatchamecallit and taken from sterilised medical grade servo tanks. Equally, I am not going to continue to start up a 2007 model car in the shed and let it idle for 5 minuted before i use it.... Its not a 1917 model.....I dont have time for that rubbish....Mine is still ratting its *%*$*^off, and after its 40K service... it now seems to be slurping whatever fuel i give it, at an average of 17.5 lhk around town totally unladen after its longterm average of 12.5. Something is wrong and i am now about to hop on the bandwagon with Toyota BIGTIME. The dealer I purchased my car from has no idea, incompetent service personnel, and i am frankly pi_ _ed right off!
Prado aint my favourite truck right now!

Somewhere in the previous page or 3 someone asked if the D4D in other Toyotas ie Hilux had the same issue. A guy at work has a SR D4D 4WD with approx 12000km and it rattles. He bought it new as well. The rattle only started recently. His fuel consumption has increased hence my quoting the post above but he recently fitted an ARB winch bar so isn't sure if it is the rattle or the bar tha has caused the increase consumption.

:shock:
Unless ARB winch bars now come complete with anchors...i doubt it is contributing to the increased fuel consumption!

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

Hang in there Masso, at least they're not wiping their hands of it... yet!

Mav, I have had a crack at recording mine first thing in the morning, unfortunately I only have my phone so it's a bit dodgy. I can hear a difference with yours, you can hear a tiny crack especially when you rev it.

See what you think, I don't beleive mine has the same problems that some of you guys have (11,500kms), but is noticeably noisy when cold.

http://www.mediafire.com/?0mmjrjmezri

Cheers,

Crammy

Crammy, I can certainly detect that "crack "sound ... which is another good way to describe the sound in mine.. rather than a rattle... its a series of "crack "sounds. It happens worse when you start cold... and then drive off on constant light throttle. You can "clear"the sound if you put the boot into it right away..(probably not a good practice!) and as the revs rise the sound disappears, until the revs drop again, say as the gears change... you then get the rattle crack and when the revs rise, it goes away. This is how it progressvely eventually stops makign the noise as it gets warm. So really i am so bloody experienced, I find i can actually MAKE it happen, then CURE it, buy using different throttle controls
and driving processes. Geees , this is becoming consuming eh? I will continue on till the loan car is available and Toyota can officially LISTEN to the noise. A thought struck me last night though... Toyota warranty..is 3 YEARS... but only 100K. Mine has 40K already in just over year 1... i guess that makes the fix more urgent eh? If they do a MAV fix and replace some injectors... and then it comes back again in the usual interval of 10-20K... then that will just about see out my warranty!

[Nick Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Nick]

A couple of questions about this issue:

Does the occurrence of this rattle/crack correlate with the time taken to get to the "magical" 10000km mark? ie have affected cars done their 1st 10k in a short time period?


Also, we have been told this week that our Grande may be delivered in October having previously been told it would be March 09 (9mth wait). Apparently, Toyota have recently cleared a "backlog." Has this long wait always been the case or did it start when this rattle became increasingly reported?

Maybe Toyota slowed down/reduced production to try and find a fix? Bit of a conspiracy theory I know!

[clifton Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close clifton]

Hi Maso and Nick,
Mine has 9800 odd Km,s and has made that noise on the engine overrun during gear changes since new and you can feather the engine a bit and stop it but the ECU will limit that, it also has a bit of diesel rattle on start-up when cold, but I am not fussed as yet as I can hear all cyls firing, no smoke, good economical fuel consumption.

The cold diesel rattle I have heard on many diesel engines particularly common rail HCCI engines, and older direct injection engines and I find mine comparable at present, so no comment yet.

If the death rattle (Re. Mav's machine) occurs then I will take action.

[Neil Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Neil]

Upon reflection mine has always had that rattle on light throttle and I just thought it was normal. It certainly doesn't rattle when first started. It has done about 23k now but I don't think it has got any worse. I have however had the unfortunate priviledge of driving a new Triton DiD for a few days, and if the Prado has a rattle then the Triton must be very close to self destructing. Same thing happens on trailing throttle more so when cold, but also at times when it is warm. For what its worth I don't think other makes are immune from the problem.

[masso Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close masso]

I wouldnt be too concerned if it had been the SAME sound since i took delivery.. but this is NEW... started about 20k (which corelates to the second winter i have had the car) Last winter, with probably 2-5K on it... no noises at all, and in fact I was shouting from the hilltops how quiet the D4D engine is. And really,it doesnt get cold in Brisbane so its not in any extreme conditions. I could understand a bit of a diesel rattle but it should have been the same since new. Its so noticeable that even some of my family who have recently been in the car without prompting have said.. "whats that noise? ". I certainly do not understand the complexities of newfangled diesel injection, but the basics are why would this start once the kilometres are up a bit? And also, if it is a crook injector... then wouldnt it do it ALL the time? I dunno... the more I look at it... the more i read about i.. the more i am confused. Maybe Toyota will give me a really LOUD stereo..,

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Crammy was that recorded outside the cab or with the window open?

I don't know about anyone else but I believe I do detect the broken baffle noise which is a bad injector it is not too bad at the moment but worth getting checked out at your next service or sooner if it gets noisier.

I will have my Prado again on Wednseday morning so I will wait till it is cold after I get home from work and try an outside cab recording.

Hey Mav, the recording was taken in the garage in the car with window down, so the sound is probably exagerated a bit, although you can here every noise. It hasn't sounded any different from the day I picked it up. Although strangly enough for the first time tonight after work I started up and as I revved up it kind of sounded like it missed twice, I don't know if I'm tryin to hear these noises now but it was something I hadn't heard before.

Anyhow hopefully things don't get worse, next service I'll quiz the toyo boys about it.

Cheers,

Crammy

[Walter Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Walter]

As previously posted mine started at around the 18K mark - about when the cold weather hit in late April/early May. I have now done 25K.

Same as previous posts, it makes the rattle until the engine warms up a bit - around a couple of kms driving. Being a manual I find the best management is to not really rev the motor - no more than 1500rpm or so

Being a leased vehicle I called the lease company yesterday and advised them the motor had a rattle and for them to record it in their systems - which they now have.

I also talked yesterday to the local Toyota service center and as a result left the car there last night so they could do a cold start.

This morning when I picked up the car I was advised yes it has a rattle, though not a bad one, it is now recorded in the Toyota database as having the rattle, and at this stage the problem is under investigation by Toyota. The guy was quite pleasant but admits there's not much they can do until Toyota advises the next step

My suggestion - if you have this problem, and haven't got it logged in the Toyota database, then do so

Ron