Is the diesel a false economy?

[TimJNB Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close TimJNB]

My two cents worth:

When you factor in more than just the per litre cost of diesel vs petrol and include the premium on the purchase price of the diesel-engined vehicle, the higher maintenance costs of diesel engines etc then I really think there's nothing in it.

To use the term used in the opening post in this thread: If you go for a diesel engine for reasons of economy then I think it is indeed false economy.

I would suggest ignoring that aspect when making the choice between petrol and diesel and rather looking at a bunch of other factors that I think will make far more difference to you in your daily use of the vehicle.

Think of things like the way vehicle performs in different on-road and off-road situations.

The noise level and the type of noise - the sound of the engine.

Ongoing maintenance of the engine and the ability to easily fix any problems that may arise along the way.

I'm sure many folks with way more experience than I have can offer more factors to consider but, when you sit down and look at total cost of ownership, I don't think there's anything in it in terms of economy / money.

Tim

[Signature035 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Signature035]

Tim, thanks for a more logical point of view.
If you own a petrol, I am certain you will favour that, likewise with a diesel........ it truley is a personal preference, that in the end probably doesn't have alot to do with cost or efficiencies...... if you love your Prado.....you have bought the right one for you.


..........fill my lungs with with diesel :lol:

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

It's always going to be a biased argument. Horses for courses I say.

I drove both before we bought ours, loved the petrol but the diesel just had more advantages over the petrol for what we'll be using it for. The D4D isn't noisy for a diesel, the Prados are that bloody quiet inside you don't hear it unless you're actually trying to listen for it.

I have no worries over taking trucks on the highway as the D4D has got plenty of grunt when you know how to drive it. You don't have to rev the guts out of them to get the power, you just need to use the available torque.

I did the calcs on diesel v petrol fuel wise and when there was only 8c difference in price, the diesel would have paid for it self in 12 months (25,000kms) including services. Now that the gap has widened It'll take a little longer but still worth it. If they've discounted the petrol as much as what the other threads are saying I guess there's no contest $$ wise.

I'd say buy what you think you'll get the most use out of and enjoy the most.

2c

[Bear Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bear]

Damien wrote:
All very possible, though demand for fuel is a hell of a lot higher than it was in the 70's globally.
The US recession may affect this however the demand will still be there so me thinks it wont drop and if it does it wont be much. The days of 70c/ L are long gone.
Saying that i never thought i would buy a petrol 4WD as i have always had diesels and this thing is pure joy to drive.

Agree with you on every point Damien ... especially "this thing is pure joy to drive".

And Whiteman wrote:
I'm sorry this thread has (de)generated into an argument of the heart rather than the head.

Don't be "sorry" mate, your original post has prompted some really useful discussion ... for me it has at least and I'm looking forward to reading the views of others. Hope its been of some use to you too, though. :shock: And yes, the cost/benefit of diesel v petrol does not seem to be the most relevant issue for many of us ... it seems that its much more about the vehicle which suits our lifestyle than cost.

Cheers

Bear

[Hutch Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hutch]

Guys, their is an interesting article in this months 4x4 mag about diesel costs vs petrol prices and reasons. It is in the editorial section.

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

Is there any sort of penalty as far as comprehensive insurance is concerned due to the D4D being a turbo or doea that only apply to sports cars

[pomp Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pomp]

So to get back to my point that most people have missed. There is no cost difference in the purchase. Yes if you look at the sticker price there is a $6K premium however, most deals I know of the drive away price is the same. Given this factor and thinking you can equal out the extra maintenance costs vs. the fuel cost savings. There is no cost difference between the two.

Thats not quite true in my experience, the cost difference is now around $7000, maybe more.
I can bearly get any discount on the diesal.
So its a bit of a no brainer, pay 7K more and wait maybe 6 months or go for the petrol and wait just a few weeks.
I was determined to get the diesal until I came on here and read a few opinions, it seems the petrol is a real bargain.

[Bear Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bear]

Pomp wrote:
the cost difference is now around $7000, maybe more.

And that is an awful lot of fuel.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

So to get back to my point that most people have missed. There is no cost difference in the purchase. Yes if you look at the sticker price there is a $6K premium however, most deals I know of the drive away price is the same. Given this factor and thinking you can equal out the extra maintenance costs vs. the fuel cost savings. There is no cost difference between the two.

Thats not quite true in my experience, the cost difference is now around $7000, maybe more.
I can bearly get any discount on the diesal.
So its a bit of a no brainer, pay 7K more and wait maybe 6 months or go for the petrol and wait just a few weeks.
I was determined to get the diesal until I came on here and read a few opinions, it seems the petrol is a real bargain.

Find another dealer

[whiteman Member Find all posts View Profile Close whiteman]

From Shell Australia's web site ....

Why does the price of diesel relative to petrol fluctuate?

Australian refineries compete with refineries in the Asian region when it comes to crude oil and fuel. Both crude oil and finished products (such as petrol and diesel) can be purchased at competitive prices from a number of locations in the region.

Prices of fuel types such as diesel or petrol in this regional market are driven by supply and demand of each individual fuel type, resulting in fluctuations of the prices relative to each other.

In Asia generally, diesel is a much more common fuel than petrol, so many Asian refineries are geared up to produce diesel. This tends to make diesel prices reflect changes in crude prices more closely than petrol prices. It also means that at times there may be "excess" or more supply of petrol than demand across the region, resulting in a dropping of petrol prices relative to crude and the more consistently demanded diesel.

[martybuzz Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close martybuzz]

Is there any sort of penalty as far as comprehensive insurance is concerned due to the D4D being a turbo or doea that only apply to sports cars

No penalty on the D4D. My diesel VX ended up cheaper than my old GXL petrol. I optioned the GXL with leather and for some reason they put a loading on it!

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Pretty sure rego is cheaper too (QLD) on the D4D because it's got 2 less pots.

[waltec Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close waltec]

Is there any sort of penalty as far as comprehensive insurance is concerned due to the D4D being a turbo or doea that only apply to sports cars

4WDs are classed as recreational vehicles and not a performance so no penalty for turbo.

Funny how insurance companies "pigeon hole" cars.

My previous car was a Forester XT, it was classed as a recreational vehicle as well, even though it had a more powerful engine than the WRX (WRX now has the same 2.5l engine) and the specs sheet had the forester only 0.1sec slower to 100kph. Effectively the same car but a wagon body, and the best part was the insurance was less than half and no age restrictions.

Matt

[S.W Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close S.W]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the other advantages of diesels offer:
1. Stronger engine braking
2. More torque low in the rev range
3. Less fluctuation in fuel consumption in different operating conditions. As mentioned a diesel does not increase as much when towing heavy trailers or in sand.

I guess what I'm getting at is cost is not the only factor to consider when buying a car. Suitability for your needs is vitally important as well.

[SSbaby Member Find all posts View Profile Close SSbaby]

From Shell Australia's web site ....

Why does the price of diesel relative to petrol fluctuate?

Australian refineries compete with refineries in the Asian region when it comes to crude oil and fuel. Both crude oil and finished products (such as petrol and diesel) can be purchased at competitive prices from a number of locations in the region.

Prices of fuel types such as diesel or petrol in this regional market are driven by supply and demand of each individual fuel type, resulting in fluctuations of the prices relative to each other.

In Asia generally, diesel is a much more common fuel than petrol, so many Asian refineries are geared up to produce diesel. This tends to make diesel prices reflect changes in crude prices more closely than petrol prices. It also means that at times there may be "excess" or more supply of petrol than demand across the region, resulting in a dropping of petrol prices relative to crude and the more consistently demanded diesel.

I say Bologna.

Recall when price variances were attributed to reasons of 'supply/demand' yet price increases were different in each state of Australia (i.e. price increased on Tuesdays in NSW, Thursdays in VIC, etc...)?

How the heck could supply/demand come into it when we are effectively operating within a 7 day cycle? Remembering that petrol prices were reasonably static only a few decades ago, much like your milk/bread yet these days we've heard every excuse under the sun for the apparent fluctuations.

As described, it takes far more energy to produce petrol than it does diesel... there is no logical reason why diesel costs more, but it does. Again, looking back some 20 years ago, diesel was cheaper than super grade petrol. Then petrol got more expensive as we reverted to ULP in '86. PULP was more expensive again... now we see diesel prices above even PULP petrol.

Smoke and mirrors!