BIO D.

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

I have been using WA's "Gull Bio D20" ocassionaly over the last few months.
Its cheaper and cleaner than the usual "dino-diesel".
I thought I would do a little surfing to see if I could find some more info on it.
Planning a trip early next year and will be filling the tanks and jerries so will have about 260lts of bio D running through the prado so I want to be sure I will not be doing any damage to her.

I found a site that some of you diesel drivers might be interested in.
WA drivers will have seen Gull service stations selling this but interstate drivers may not have been so lucky yet.

http://www.biofuelsforum.com/perth_biod ... perth.html

I think it is the direction the world will be going.


But. What do you think of Bio-Diesel?..........

Jeff.

[4xx4 Driver Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4xx4 Driver]

I asked my local dealer about bio diesel for my D4D and they said "Don't do it". Also, they advised that Toyota was about to issue a service bulletin to dealers to advise customers not to use it. The reason I was given was corrosion and/or sludge formation in fuel systems.

YMMV.

[resident e Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close resident e]

I asked my local dealer about bio diesel for my D4D and they said "Don't do it". Also, they advised that Toyota was about to issue a service bulletin to dealers to advise customers not to use it. The reason I was given was corrosion and/or sludge formation in fuel systems.

YMMV.

Thats funny you say that. Iv looking a buying a TD Prado the last few weeks and have been to both Campbelltown and Narellan toyota dealers. The salesmen iv spoken to both said Bio diesal(and ethanol fuel for the V6) was ok to use aslong as it wasn't home made. It needs to come from a reputable source.

[resident e Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close resident e]

[quote=resident e]

I asked my local dealer about bio diesel for my D4D and they said "Don't do it". Also, they advised that Toyota was about to issue a service bulletin to dealers to advise customers not to use it. The reason I was given was corrosion and/or sludge formation in fuel systems.

YMMV.

Thats funny you say that. Iv been looking a buying a TD Prado the last few weeks and have been to both Campbelltown and Narellan toyota dealers. The salesmen iv spoken to both said Bio diesal(and ethanol fuel for the V6) was ok to use aslong as it wasn't home made. It needs to come from a reputable source.[/quote:mjj22hxd]

[begs Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close begs]

I have done quite a bit a research into this, as our other car, Peugeot HDi, was recommended to only run on Bio D. I contacted Gull and asked about their B20 blend. They were very helpfull and told me that they have been unsuccessful in getting more manufacturers in changing their position on blends above 5%. Gull even gave me their chemical certificate for the B20 as proof that it complies with ALL the current diesel standards. Gull suggested that I ask Toyota directly where their fuel fails to meet Toyota's requirements. I approached Toyota Australia about the compliance of the Gull fuel, and after getting the run around for a number of months, I finally got a response:

Thank you for your email received by our Customer Relations Department regarding bio-diesel suitability of Diesel Prado and please accept our apologies for the delay in responding to you.

This matter has been investigated and we are able to advise Toyota will endorse biodiesel fuel blends using FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters that comply with either EN14214 or ASTM D6751 standards) of up to 5% volume concentration when mixed with conventional diesel fuel. The final product B5 (5% Biodiesel blend) at the pump must conform to the national Diesel Fuel Standard which is based on EN590.
In the absence of biodiesel fuel standards and due to the many variations of biodiesel fuel blends under production in our market, such as B20 & B30 (biodiesel blend 20% & 30%) Toyota is not in a position to evaluate the long term effect that these varied biodiesel fuel blends will have on engine overall performance, fuel injection equipment durability, fuel economy and exhaust emission compliance.

Accordingly, Toyota cannot recommend concentration of biodiesel fuel blends greater than 5% volume as mentioned above.

They didn't even answer my question in regards to where the B20 blend fails, even though it meets the EN590 standard.

Perhaps with enough consumer pressure they will do the testing required to assess the higher blended fuels. If the European car manufactures can give these blends the ok, then why can't the others??

Cheers,
Ray.

[Damien Parker Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damien Parker]

Surely the Toyota's over in Europe would be running on the higher blends you would think... ???

Major case of coverus arsus...

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

Thats an interesting reply. Definitely covering there r's.

From the most part of what I have heard, (not confirmed in any way officially) the problem with most home made Bio, (and possibly the higher blends) was that the rubber in fuel lines and fuel system seals can deteriorate and crack. thats due to a lack of chemical rubber rejuvenators that are found in dino diesel.

Toyota and other manufacturers and fuel companies will have to team up soon, if not already. Bio will be the future, or some other fuel source. Dino Diesel will not last forever........

[bitdist Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bitdist]

With my new diesel there was a little brochure in the glove box from Toyota about the fuel system etc, and it says in there that 5% bio is OK, so they have endorsed that much at least

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

Thanks Bitdist

I dont use it primarily, but maybe like 20% of the time. So far no ill effects have shown up.

Jeff.

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

Saw a bio diversity fuel program on foxtel recently.
When they got to bio diesel there is a US university running straight bio.
They said that you need special fuel lines, and "racing" injectors.
They built there own sports car chassi and all. it looked real good.

And they were getting about 50MPG.

The program went on to a highway in norway (?) that is now set up for hydrogen. with a hydrogen cars.. amasing

Jeff

[shamozzle Find all posts View Profile Close shamozzle]

For those of you in Melbourne here's where to go

http://finabiofuels.com.au/

Those of you with the 1kz-te should be able to run b100 or neat biodiesel without a problem whatsoever. Those running the D4D should probably run a blend, mainly for warranty reasons. As far as sludge goes, the only sludge you should experience is the crap the biodiesel cleans out of your fuel lines and fuel tank from that dirty dino diesel. Carry a fuel filter or two round with you just in case. Have been running my surf on it for a while now and have noticed vast improvements in consumtion and also how much smoother, quieter and less diesel like the motor sounds.

[ades Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ades]

Re: BIO D.

Fatty Acid Methyl Esters (FAMEs) are part of Biodiesel and has been known to cause contamination of aviation grade fuels.

The UK CAA has published guidance for airlines in this regard http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD200850.pdf

What's this got to do with a Prado ?

My understanding is that when Biodiesel is pumped through pipes at refineries, from ship to shore, from tanks to trucks, a residue of Fatty Acid Methyl Ester can remain.

Fuel pumped through the same pipes after this can become contaminated. There is also experimentation going on with fuels containing more than 5% biodiesel.

The advice by the UK CAA isn't that fuel companies need to ensure they only provide fuel to exacting specifications, the advice is that the airlines need to ensure the quality of the fuel.

I must have missed something?

It's basially telling the consumer that they need to provide their own system of fuel testing and quality assurance.

If this is being applied to aviation then what hope will the average Prado owner have if fuel gets contaminated?

I never knew it was up to the consumer to ensure the quality assurance of the manufactured product when a standard is set by the government.

Could become an interesting issue in the next few years with more and more biofuels coming online.

Something worth thinking about. Interesting topic fuel quality.

Adrian